PSR and Amtrak

Is CSX's elimination of sidings on the water level route a symptom of PSR on steroids and could that potentially further slow down the LSL? Are there other freight hosted routes utilizing PSR that affect Amtrak in negative ways? Seems in some cases longer freights with less frequency could also enhance Amtrak's OTP.

who or what is PSR?

Without knowing what you are particularly discussing, CSX and all other businesses on this world actions can be attributed to their ultimate goal for turning a larger profit. Everything they do is aimed at making a larger profit.

electricron wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:12 am who or what is PSR?

Uh... Precision Scheduled Railroading.... which means a Class 1 is running trains on a fixed schedule, and eliminating stops at smaller yards in favor of backtracking. One outcome of this has been longer trains moving nonstop between the larger yards, which has equated to higher average track speeds & shorter dwell time. And yes, it requires fewer sidings and fewer yards.

You can get an overview here: https://www.supplychaindive.com/news/6- ... OR/571792/

Without going into the pro's and con's of PSR... What's the impact on Amtrak?

I'd think that running on a schedule that takes into account slots for Amtrak would be a net positive. Keeping the trains running at higher speed should

Unfortunately, BNSF doesn't apply it, so it doesn't help trains like the SWC, CZ or EB, which when they're delayed, they're seriously delayed...

As I expected, having fewer but longer trains should increase their profits.
I see this as a wash as far as Amtrak is concerned. Having more slots available for Amtrak trains to run within off hand seems positive, but Amtrak trains will be running behind even slower freight trains which would be a negative.
And if the freight railroads eliminate passing sidings because they are running fewer trains, they will be eliminating slots available for Amtrak as well, another negative.

I keep reading about many proposals to increase the numbers of passenger trains on America's railroads, yet no one actually suggests implementing the solution that would work every time to get the freight railroads more willing to share their property with Amtrak or another passenger rail provider. That solution is to increase the freight railroads profits, ie the passenger train paying its own way on the rails. I suggest that if the freights could earn as much or more money running passenger trains over their rails as they do with freight trains, they would not object having more passenger trains running on them.

We were talking about this a few days ago at work. Seems protect crews and cab rides ALB to BUF for train crews could become a thing. No one really knows for sure as CSX didnt really use the sidings much from what I can remember when I held a regular ALB SYR turn a while back. It will get interesting when something breaks down and there is a foreman with a stop sign on both tracks that is 5 miles long with "radio issues".

Popcorn anyone

electricron wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:53 am Amtrak trains will be running behind even slower freight trains which would be a negative.

Longer trains aren't necessarily slower. With fewer trains running, there's more power available to keep things moving, and the data shows that track speeds have increased for everyone except BNSF, who isn't adapting PSR.

Disclaimer: author long UNP

The chart tells the tale (expand to 5 years)

https://www.google.com/search?q=unp+sto ... gws-wiz-hp

CSX runs the same speeds as they did when the took over from Conrail 60 mph IM 50mph freight with just enough HP to make it move at those speeds. Ive watched trains on the B&A be on their knees with engineers telling the disp. I ain't going to make the hill I'm down to 3mph and told to "do the best you can". PSR is nothing more than a money grab when the physical plant fails then it will be up for sale.

CSX average speed was up by 12% from 2018 to 2019 (latest data available)... NS was up 17%.

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One question I have, how many miles of second track would an Amtrak train traveling at 79mph take up trying to pass a 16,000 ft. manifest traveling at 50. If the dispatcher allows the move he is tying up a lot of RR. and stopping opposing moves. That's a no no with PSR.

The July TRAINS article on Precision Railroading is testament to the social impact PSR has made on the industry and its stakeholders.

What about impact on public ?

west point wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:25 pm What about impact on public ?

The term you're looking for (and this is railroad related) is -

"The public be damned".

Pretty Sh;++y Railroading (PSR) is nothing more than asset stripping to feed Wall Street. Once the railroads are run into the ground and everything stripped out of them what's left will have to be nationalized.

As for BNSF NOT doing PSR that probably a good thing as they're beating UP in just about every metric concerning freight traffic. Not going full on stUPid with PSR was probably the best thing they ever did. The CEO at BNSF is NOT a fan of PSR.

Yeah, just as I suspected.... Lots of hyperbole from people who don't like PSR, not a lot of commentary on why it could benefit Amtrak...

Yes, PSR does reduce costs and increase profits. That's management's job -- make the most money for the company by spending the least amount of money.

Prior to PSR, there were a lot of deeply ingrained poor operating and scheduling practices that drove a lot of inefficiencies, as well as overtime and penalty pay. As that got cleaned up, the old-timers who used to make a lot of money from penalty pay started howling about how bad PSR was.....

It's a fact that with PSR, equipment utilization is up (e.g. hours spent in motion pulling revenue as opposed to idling on a enginehouse lead somewhere) and yes, units in storage are up.

It's a fact that Deadheading and Away from Terminal pay is down. Crews head out of the terminal, and there's no ambiguity of "if" there will be a train for them to run back home, it's a known when. Some of them will be same day within 12 hours of service, others will be after some rack time and back before time-away premiums kick in. Some crews change at a midpoint so they can bring another train into their terminal and still be within their 12 hours. That means they're home every night instead of away, which a normal person would see as a boost to quality of life, yet some still find it necessary to complain about.

It's also a fact that done correctly, crews aren't being called up with 90 minutes notice as often. That's a plus for safety.

It's also a fact that done correctly, PSR doesn't require nearly as many yard tracks or smaller yards with servicing facilities.

I look at FedEx and UPS as comparisons. They run on a fixed schedule, be it planes or the various truck networks. They have set times for everything to cross-connect, and you don't see a lot of extra equipment lying around just-in-case aside perhaps for a couple hot spares to cover for breakdowns. They're both grossly profitable. Customers love the reliability and dependibility. If they say two days, it's two days. Good luck getting that commitment from BNSF.

Why that seems so impossible for a railroad to accomplish is boggling. Go look at old timetables, and you'll see freight running on schedules prior to the 1960's, but 40 and 50 years later, it's impossible? That's inexplicable.