LV milepost help

scottychaos wrote:

TB Diamond wrote:
The track charts posted above had to have been drawn after 1972 according to the CTC installations depicted. Have no explanation therefore as to why the Rochester branch compass south of Rochester Jct. was shown as the Hemlock branch as by that time Lima-Hemlock had been abandoned.

Probably simply because of inertia. Its likey the branch had been called "The Hemlock Branch" for a long time, probably many decades, and in 1972 no one had any reason to give it a different name, even after Lima-Hemlock had been abandoned.

Scot

I don't think LV was renaming branchlines at the time. The Naples Branch retained its name even after the Rushville-Naples segment was abandoned in 1970.

Held that in mind. However, the Naples branch was officially known as the Naples branch. The "Hemlock branch" was not officially referred to by that name after shortly before 1905 per reference in previous posts.

There seems to be a general confusion as to official names of branch lines and unofficial names which carried through to the person who drew up that post-1972 track chart.

In my collection is a Lehigh Valley Railroad Track Signal Chart Rochester Jct.to Buffalo, NY drawn up by the Engr. Sig. & Comm. Sayre, PA dated Jan.18, 1971. At Rochester Jct. the track leading off to Lima is described as "Rochester Br. to Lima".

Kevin D's post in this thread, from Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:29 am,
shows charts that definately say Hemlock Branch..
those must be LV charts..because who else would make them but the LV?

So the theory that:

"The whole branch, Rochester, through Rochester Junction, to Hemlock, was called "the Rochester branch." "

*is* true..but not necessarily *always* true..

Scot

So the question is, what makes something "official"? Obviously railfan terms don't cut it. But here we have one part of the Lehigh Valley RR calling it the Rochester Branch, and another part of the same company calling it the Hemlock Branch.

I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is.

I looked up my 1943 LV Interlocking Diagrams and it is called the Rochester Branch on that.

An additional reference in my files is Lehigh Valley Railroad General Order No. 918 Zone E , Page 5 dated March 15, 1972 which describes the track leading from the passing siding at Rochester Jct. towards Lima as Roch. Br. East To Lima.

This represents a official description.

BR&P wrote:So the question is, what makes something "official"? Obviously railfan terms don't cut it. But here we have one part of the Lehigh Valley RR calling it the Rochester Branch, and another part of the same company calling it the Hemlock Branch.

I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is.

I dont find it very confusing..
I dont think it was parts of the same company calling it two different things at the same time..
It seems it was most likely the same company calling it two different things at completely different times..

Looks like "Hemlock branch" was later in the LV's history..

Scot

Agreed, Scot.

Don’t feel too bad TB, you seem bummed out by the whole thing.

scottychaos wrote: I dont find it very confusing..
I dont think it was parts of the same company calling it two different things at the same time..
It seems it was most likely the same company calling it two different things at completely different times..

Go back and read the posts that have been made, and note the dates.

TBDiamond:
In my collection is a Lehigh Valley Railroad Track Signal Chart Rochester Jct.to Buffalo, NY drawn up by the Engr. Sig. & Comm. Sayre, PA dated Jan.18, 1971. At Rochester Jct. the track leading off to Lima is described as "Rochester Br. to Lima".

TBDiamond: The track charts posted above had to have been drawn after 1972 according to the CTC installations depicted.

So January 1971, one part of the LV called it Hemlock Branch. And after 1972 (but before Conrail in 1976) a different part of the LV called it Rochester Branch. We're only dealing with a difference of a couple years at most.

I think whoever drew the track chart used the common, local name rather than what was official.

Agreed, Don.

It seems to me, according to the trajectory, that the branch at one time crossed what became the LV main on what was essentially a diamond (both haves considered one common line), until it was realigned on the Rochester side a little further to the west to do a hop-on, cross over, hop-off arrangement. The branches former alignment to/from the old diamond looks like it eventually became part of the little yard or runaround track there on the Rochester side. Did LV build the branch, or buy the branch? Which was built first, main or branch?

The Lehigh Valley Railroad constructed its extension to Rochester in 1891 as the Rochester & Honeoye Valley Railroad connecting to the newly constructed main line at Rochester Jct. Later this branch was extended to the shore of Hemlock Lake and was combined with the Rochester & Honeoye Valley in August 1895 thereby creating the Rochester Southern Railroad, the stock of which was held by the Lehigh Valley Railroad.

Reference: A History of the Lehigh Valley Railroad by Robert F. Archer.gf

FWIW, I take my bike down there fairly often on the pathway. Right about there, it gets kinda swampy during wet periods.

VTM apparently has problems in trying to log onto this site. He advises both legs of the wye crossed Surrine Creek on bridges, he believes those bridges were RS 379 and RS 379A. He speculates the "RS" designated from Rochester Jct south, and there may have been "RN" markers going north toward Rochester but cannot confirm that.

"ALL MP'S ON THE BRANCH HAD THE SAME MP GOING NORTH TO ROCHESTER AS GOING SOUTH TO HEMLOCK. SUSPECT THIS MAY HAVE ELIMINATED CONFUSION AS TO BRIDGE DESIGNATION. THAT SAID I HAVE NEVER SEEN A BRIDGE MARKER FOR ANYTHING GOING NORTH. QUITE POSSIBLY THEY COULD HAVE BEEN “RN”."

To return to the original question of mileposts on the LV, there are several on display at the Medina RR museum. I wrote to Mr. Martin Phelps, executive director of the museum, about them. His reply was that the regular mileposts were diamond shaped. Ones that were square shaped were bridge markers. Some had a letter with the number such as 408A, which he said was from "Cedar St". He also noted that they were made from recycled tender sheets fastened to recycled boiler flues. Also that replacements were flame cut and very jagged.