NJT HOBOKEN TERMINAL ACCIDENT THREAD

It's not so much computers per se but complexity. As these systems grow more and more complex it becomes harder for one person to understand the whole design. Designs try to deal with various failure scenarios by adding redundancy which adds even more complexity. More complexity means the number of scenarios that have to be tested increases exponentially, to the point where there are not enough manhours to test every possible path, even assuming you are not under pressure to meet a release deadline which is usually the case. I see this all the time in my job, software development. Fortunately for me, people's lives do not depend on me not introducing any bugs into my designs and implementations.

Jon

MCL1981 wrote:A minute ago, it was said that the brake stand is electronic with no air release until emergency. That would imply that the brake pipe is remaining fully charged in the release state, with the braking on the cars being managed entirely by EP until the handle is in emergency, then the air dumps. So are you saying that the brake pipe is being reduced at the same time as the EP controls for service braking? If that's the case, how do the cars know which to trust... EP or the brake pipe? Or do the cars just totally ignore the brake pipe until it is dumped into emergency?

Sorry, I should expand on my earlier post. The CCB controller controls a brake-pipe-control-unit. This BPCU contains the equalizing reservoir, and a relay valve, which manipulates the brake pipe as a traditional setup does. The brake pipe does NOT stay fully charged at all times, it takes reductions for applications, and increases for charge release. The LI C3 cars have an applied magnet valve on each car to assist with the application of brakes, however, it is still brake-pipe manipulation that controls each car.

MCL1981 wrote:

EM2000 wrote:A lot of misinformation, and misunderstanding regarding air brake being thrown around in this thread.

That's very helpful. Thanks.

Unfortunately we lost our 1 NJT engineer on here to my knowledge who was qualified on the equipment so you have to remember that you pretty much are getting a general consensus on certain things at this point. The basics to running a train apply the same across the board however you have some very different variations and setups (especially NJT).

Mass media is reporting that the event and video recorders, along with the engineer's backpack and cell phone (which was stowed in the backpack) have been recovered from the cab car and that the train may be removed from the station tomorrow. Let's hope that the impending storm this weekend doesn't further hamper the reopening of the terminal.

The cab car is stuck where it is now. Can't really pull it out or get a crane to lift it out. How would that be done?

The other 3 cars and the engine are still on the rails and would probably just be pulled out by another locomotive.

EM2000 wrote:A lot of misinformation, and misunderstanding regarding air brake being thrown around in this thread.

Feel free to share correct information, if you have it, instead of just throwing stones.

Link dump time. Note, NJ.com is rather slow recently. Link titles are mine.

NJ.com:
NJT adds more trains on Main/Bergen/Port Jervis line to handle overcrowding.
Investigators leak that train may have been going 20-30 MPH before crash before officially revealing they got the black box and all the engineer's stuff from the cab car.

NBC: Officials say they got recorder, engineer's stuff from cab.
CBS: Investigators leak overspeed estimate, and by the way, we got the stuff out of the cab car.

The NTSB photo stream can be seen at https://www.flickr.com/photos/ntsb/

Feel free to share correct information, if you have it, instead of just throwing stones.

I'll pass.

Then why even post?

Other Board Mod Note: If you have nothing constructive to say...don't. People who say something and are deliberately vague may have valid reasons, especially if running their mouth on here endangers their job.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

From an NTSB tweet (about 6 hours ago it says, which would be about noontime) https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NTSB engineers extracting data from #Hoboken NJ Transit accident train event & video recorders; expect content characterization in few days

Like watching paint dry. Anything else noteworthy today? Tomorrow is a week already. I hope all the injured are out of hospitals. JS

From one of the NTSB photos, it looks like a ton of wires that span the terminal were taken out by the cab car. In fact, it's almost like these wires helped protect the historic terminal, since you can see they helped to absorb the energy of the impact, without a sudden hard stop, almost like those wire guardrails on the highways are designed to do.

NTSB photo: https://flic.kr/p/LRNvd4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

closer view: https://flic.kr/p/MLcMLj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If all of those wires need to be replaced, it's going to be a long time before the terminal reopens. Passenger communications, platform lights, security cameras, emergency telephone communications, ticket vending machines, etc. They're not going to reopen a terminal that can't support those very basic functions, even if other tracks are clear and the accident scene is roped off. (my opinion/observation)

trainbrain wrote:The cab car is stuck where it is now. Can't really pull it out or get a crane to lift it out. How would that be done?

The other 3 cars and the engine are still on the rails and would probably just be pulled out by another locomotive.

I was wondering the same, and came up with three armchair options:

1. Set up a portable crane outside of the terminal that can span the distance and lift at least half of the car at a time, get it back on the rails, while using a locomotive to pull it down the track. Honestly, I'm not even sure there is a crane in this world that could do that, just theorizing.

2. Remove additional sections of the roof either in back of or adjacent to the cab car and use a crane on a railcar to move it back on the rails.

3. Back a tow truck down the tracks, and use boards to adjust the car back on the track while the tow truck pulls on the car. That's assuming there is a tow truck in this world that could tug that much weight.

time wrote:3. Back a tow truck down the tracks, and use boards to adjust the car back on the track while the tow truck pulls on the car. That's assuming there is a tow truck in this world that could tug that much weight.

If they can make a pickup truck that can tow a space shuttle over a bridge, they can make a tow truck that can pull a passenger train car.