How might a broken rail be discovered?

Add two more to the list...

LIRR Service Advisory System wrote:The 11:39PM train from Penn due Babylon at 12:57AM is being held east of Woodside due to a broken rail.

LIRR Service Advisory System wrote:The 11:48PM train from Penn due Port Washington at 12:34AM is operating 10 minutes late due to a broken rail near Flushing Main Street.

For those keeping score at home, the count is now up to 18 broken rails so far in 2015:

LIRR Service Advisory System wrote:LIRR trains are bypassing Kew Gardens and Forest Hills stations due to a broken rail west of Forest Hills. Temporary platforms are in place at this time at Woodside Station, please board/exit the train via the front two cars. Customers at Woodside may wish to use the Port Washington Branch, which is unaffected. NYC Transit is also cross-honoring LIRR fares for the E and 7 subway lines.

The broken rail issue has much to do with the weather and the extreme temperature ranges for our climate. For the layman, CWR is heated as it is layer. The temperature which it is layer at is dependant on the climate. The idea is for the rail to not kink on the hottest days. Good ballast and wide enough shoulders also help.

A broken rail is much more desirable than a heat kink. The block system protects a broken rail, while there is no warning for a kink. The lack of warning in non signaled lines usually requires more strict restrictions for either hot or cold weather. I have noticed that problems seem to surface when there is a large temp. swing.

Something in this thread struck me funny. It was reported that the trains had to run wrong main around the broken rail. The rules call for only one train to have authority between two points. This is foolish for such a high capacity operation. I run in dark territory, and often we have several movements with the same limits. The difference is that we use radio blocking. Why can't LIRR add this to their rules? This way the first train can tell the succeeding train a physical characteristic which is is complete by. We use station signs and mileposts.

What i've always wondered is how the breaks are repaired.

TrainPhotos wrote:What i've always wondered is how the breaks are repaired.

Because of the temperature conditions that generally precipitate breaks, it is not always possible to permanently repair a break when it happens.

That is, the temperature would likely be below the range of the railroad's specified rail installation temperature range (as specified in the railroad's CWR plan), so a temporary repair would have to be made until the ambient temperature rose into the specified range. The broken area of track could be cut-out and a splicing piece bolted into place; then, when the temperature was high enough, things could be welded.

Just as a reminder, the rail is installed as hot as practicable, and then contracts as the temperature goes down (immediately placing contraction stress on the rail). Practically, as temperatures vary over the course of a year, the rail has expansions and contractions for which, ideally, the rail is stabilized sufficiently that most of the stress of the expansion/contraction is vertical, not longitudinal, so pull-apart and buckling events are avoided; however, temperature extremes can exceed the limits of the installation.

And it was all over the New York metro area news last week that this was the third coldest winter on the records for this area.

I'm thinking in the era of jointed rail and cold temperatures the joints between the rails would take up the different rates of expansion/contraction?

Indeed, and while jointed rail could still fail, there was tremendous tolerance compared to welded rail.

Morisot wrote:And it was all over the New York metro area news last week that this was the third coldest winter on the records for this area.

I'm not a meteorologist, but the average temperature over the course of the winter doesn't tell you all that much about whether or not the weather conditions contributed to the broken rails, just like how a students grade point average doesn't tell you anything about how well they did in Biology. What should be more telling is the minimum temperatures and the variation in temperatures, as that would likely put more stress on the rail than it just being cold outside (if anything, a lower average temperature would be more preferable, so long as it's consistent).

When you consider those figures, this winter wasn't all that exceptional. The low temperature was lower than the median historical low temperature for that day on only 19 of the 59 days in January and February, and most of those were towards the end of February, where the cold weather held on for a little longer than it typically does (and that is on the low side, especially when you consider that the definition of a median is that half of the values are lower than that). Record lows were only set in this area on four of the 59 days this winter, and all of those were at the very end of February.

Yes, it was cold, but it wasn't extremely cold, and the temperatures weren't shooting up and down from day to day. If the rails aren't designed to hold together in low temperatures that are above the median low temperature on over 70% of the days this winter, then they are very poorly designed. Otherwise, it has to be some sort of issue in the way they were installed...

What is forgotten here is that the Railroad would rather the rail break, than kink. When it breaks, it cuts the signal/ASC circuit to their most restrictive aspect. The rail is installed under tension. Meaning, the track department when installing new rail, soaks a rope with kerosesne, lays it alongside the new rail and then sets the rope on fire to heat the rail and cause it to expand. If there is a newer more modern method of stretching rail, some please say so. Once expanded, the rail is joined to existing rail. When it is very cold and the rail contracts, the tension is greatly increased and it is prone to breakage. Broken rails are not a symbol of LIRR poor track maintenance or lack of maintenance, it is a symbol of proper track design with safety in mind (broken rail-droppped signals-trains slow down). Stretching the rail also decreases the incidence of kinks in the rail when the weather is very hot.

LIRR42 said: I'm not a meteorologist, but the average temperature over the course of the winter doesn't tell you all that much about whether or not the weather conditions contributed to the broken rails, just like how a students grade point average doesn't tell you anything about how well they did in Biology. What should be more telling is the minimum temperatures and the variation in temperatures, as that would likely put more stress on the rail than it just being cold outside (if anything, a lower average temperature would be more preferable, so long as it's consistent).

Well, you say you are not a meteorologist --- and then assert that average temperature DOESN'T inform on weather conditions that may have affected the rails? But you, still not a meteorologist, then assert that minimum and temperature variations do count. I bet you are not a geologist or a physicist either. Nor a Civil engineer or Architect.

How about some actual observation. I've lived a mile from the mainline for 40 years. Sidewalks and roads in the area have heaved in places, and to heights, that I have never seen before. Our driveway, which has never heaved, heaved four inches above the level of the sidewalk this winter. And YOU can ignore it, but for this area, February 2015 is down as the third coldest February in the record books.

(And I think the Rail Road doesn't pooh-pooh the broken rails! Do you REALLY think they don't want to find ways to improve safety and reliability ---within some kind of fiscal bounds!)

Speaking of pavement heaving, on the Taconic Parkway above Hudson the roadway has experienced about 30 miles of heaving. I've have never seen the roadway do that before. Its like driving on a washboard, so this winter was COLD!!

Datenail wrote:What is forgotten here is that the Railroad would rather the rail break, than kink. When it breaks, it cuts the signal/ASC circuit to their most restrictive aspect. The rail is installed under tension. Meaning, the track department when installing new rail, soaks a rope with kerosesne, lays it alongside the new rail and then sets the rope on fire to heat the rail and cause it to expand. If there is a newer more modern method of stretching rail, some please say so. Once expanded, the rail is joined to existing rail. When it is very cold and the rail contracts, the tension is greatly increased and it is prone to breakage. Broken rails are not a symbol of LIRR poor track maintenance or lack of maintenance, it is a symbol of proper track design with safety in mind (broken rail-droppped signals-trains slow down). Stretching the rail also decreases the incidence of kinks in the rail when the weather is very hot.

Nicely put, Date. That is a great railroad answer to the questions people have asked yet I don't think that will suffice LIRR42.

anyone else see the article about LIRR42 in Newsday? now we know why he wasnt hired.

I think lirr42 is simply making statements to rile people on here. For the time being, until some material that surpasses steel that does not stretch, contract, rust or wear can be invented that is suitable for rail, this is what we have to work with. Maybe after we exhaust our iron ore deposits, we can use recylced plastic bottles for rail and then there will be complaints about something else. If employees worked for free, there will be complaints about employees not smiling enough. Lirr42, I don't like diesel smoke. But until we reach the level of star trek technology and the railroad is run by Captain Kirk, we don't have much choice with the materials we have to work with. While you are complaining about high fares due to antiquted union work rules, write a letter to the MTA and ask them why they are paying full salary and benefits to the former LIRR President who was fired from her job. Not even the best union contract on the LIRR provides for full compensation to a fired employee.