Late January Storm 2015 Shutdown...

As one who has had to perform my share of heroics in my line of work, I will offer the observation that the real genius is not the guy who can extricate himself from fifteen locked trunks without a scrape and without breaking a sweat. The really smart guy is the one who does not get himself into such a situation in the first place. In my line of work, the really smart guy is not the guy who can recover any data off a damaged hard disk and charge $5,000 or $10,000 for the privilege-- he is the guy who takes a few minutes to add a second hard disk to a server and makes sure that backups are performed regularly. In railroading the smart people are the ones who know when running service is just not smart and do not do it, not the people who go to all lengths to run service at all costs. What price glory?

I don't have any love lost for our current crop of politicians, but if takes lowly politicians to bring some common sense to the table, I won't argue. At least I see that I am not alone here, but when I see how little common sense people who ought to know better have, it is disappointing. Railroad employees who have attempted to operate in adverse conditions ought to be the first to agree that service should not be attempted in dangerous conditions. These are the people who are responsible for our safety when we board the trains; they should be more cautious than the rest of us, not less. They should be the ones to say "no!" when the rest of us are anxious to travel. I wouldn't want to board an airplane or a boat with a pilot or co-pilot or captain who doesn't take bad weather seriously and the same applies to a railroad crew, especially the conductor and engineer.

At a snowfall rate up to 3 inches an hour,it tends to become difficult to keep a path open for travel,
by the time you clear snow away from the garage to the street,it's covered again with at least 1 inch of snow or more!
Throw in wind blown snow,it can seem if you didn't even shovel snow to begin with.
AS long as it's that fine powder type snow,that's what shorts out traction motors and onboard electronics!
It does become a losing battle at some point.

Andrew Saucci wrote:As one who has had to perform my share of heroics in my line of work, I will offer the observation that the real genius is not the guy who can extricate himself from fifteen locked trunks without a scrape and without breaking a sweat. The really smart guy is the one who does not get himself into such a situation in the first place. In my line of work, the really smart guy is not the guy who can recover any data off a damaged hard disk and charge $5,000 or $10,000 for the privilege-- he is the guy who takes a few minutes to add a second hard disk to a server and makes sure that backups are performed regularly. In railroading the smart people are the ones who know when running service is just not smart and do not do it, not the people who go to all lengths to run service at all costs. What price glory?

I don't have any love lost for our current crop of politicians, but if takes lowly politicians to bring some common sense to the table, I won't argue. At least I see that I am not alone here, but when I see how little common sense people who ought to know better have, it is disappointing. Railroad employees who have attempted to operate in adverse conditions ought to be the first to agree that service should not be attempted in dangerous conditions. These are the people who are responsible for our safety when we board the trains; they should be more cautious than the rest of us, not less. They should be the ones to say "no!" when the rest of us are anxious to travel. I wouldn't want to board an airplane or a boat with a pilot or co-pilot or captain who doesn't take bad weather seriously and the same applies to a railroad crew, especially the conductor and engineer.

I think the problem that people like Tool and myself have is the enormous pride we have/had in operations. Sure, not every obstacle can be overcome. However, years ago, people put boots on the ground, engines on the rails and MADE it happen. You had resources to deploy. You didn't give up at the forecast of snow. Granted, I was never a fan of "run and rescue" but if you planned accordingly and managed your resources properly, your "rescues" would most likely not exceed the number you have on a normal day.

It was a thrill and a rush to say to people "this is what we do!"

To that end, allow me to quote from the the NJT forum for further emphasis:

Launcher wrote:

airman00 wrote:News radio said amtrak (for NEC trains) on modified schedule. That's all I heard. Don't know what that entails or if they too might shut down.

Nothing running beyond New York. In our area, Amtrak trains are modified/reduced/delayed but not totally cancelled. I imagine this is cleanup time on the DC-NY corridor as there are NO flights operating at many airports. Borderline devastating storms like this are Amtrak's time to shine!

This should be Amtrak's moment to shine. They should have throngs of displaced airline passengers being booked on to the trains. Years ago, that's exactly what happened and you poached passengers from the airlines by showing them "we'll get you there...eventually."

Not anymore. The towel is thrown in without turning a wheel. People that have been around for a while know that you can get it done if the will is there.
Unfortunately, It no longer exists particularly in the face of "I'll sue," and while I certainly understand why service is shutdown, there is a still a part of me that is willing to dig in, hotel down and show anyone that shows up "this is what we're here for. This is what we do!"

The Long Island Rail Road has served the public through the annual blizzards and storms. In all but the most extreme situations -- usually those involving extreme icing and power outages -- millions of passengers reliably got to their destinations without event. Certainly the railroad saved countless lives protecting its riders from driving slippery and icy roads and transporting rescue and medical workers to their tours in the City.

As Americans become softer and lazier and elect leaders who promise safety and comfort without hard work and risk, those who chose to forge ahead, battle the elements and persevere in adverse conditions will be demonized by a lazy and envious majority.

Regardless of the cost to the taxpayer, the loss of a vital conveyance to emergency workers and the inconvenience to the millions who depend on reliable transportation, the politically safe way will be to quit, to run and hide, to not make the effort. Why bother? The self sufficient, the strong, the independent vital contributors have left New York to the dependent and weak followers.

What a pity so many New Yorkers are buying into this agenda.

Go cower at home and don't come out until your Newsday reporter says it's safe.

Very well said, sir. Your closing line sums everything up.

I have always found, however, that the reason people offer up for keeping everything open is so that "the cops and firefighters [and railroad employees, etc.] can get to work" is a bit ridiculous. If weather conditions are going to be unsafe enough for the average person to not be allowed to venture out, they are not going to be any different for the cops, the firefighters, or the railroad employees. Last time I checked, people who work in those occupations do not have any special superpowers that make them immune to bad weather. They may be "stronger" than us "soft and lazy" inside workers, but if they think they're strong enough to go and venture out in the middle of a hurricane or a blizzard, then they're not much smarter than the people Mr. Tool mocks in his post. I understand the roles these people play are essential, but they ought to be where they need to be for the duration of the storm before it begins, and not traveling out during the height of it...

That's because the titles you listed serve essential job functions, and those risks are associated with that. You on the other hand do not serve an essential function. Don't let your inferiority complex confuse reality. BTW, make sure to tell a Cop or Fireman that the next time you need assistance in a hurricane.

Last time that I saw it, Darth was buried in Holban Yard. I wouldn't be surprised if it stays there

I heard they were using NY&A GP 38's to run snow patrols to clear the Rails.

This storm was a "Snor’easter". As of 7:30 AM, the travel ban has been lifted in NYC

Can we expect service to resume later today?

Some interesting politics: The Railroad is scrambling to resume service, as Jamaica has only seen 6" of snow. Far Rockaway has 4", and Hempstead 8". The LIRR's management did not want to shut the place down and only did so on the Governor's orders. Losses are roughly $17 million from the shutdown, and there's a question of whether the State will reimburse the operating budget for their fiasco. We assume a vocal outcry will demand refunds for unusable tickets.

Now the Company has been scrambling since 3 AM to get crews together, many of whom were told to go home and face arrest if they drove their cars prior to 9 AM this morning. The NYAR ran patrol trains, which were generally not needed.

I would expect some limited service by late morning, with probably an announcement that modified weekend schedules are in effect beginning at 1 or 3 PM. The problem is that many switch heaters have not been lit, little maintenance and inspections done and no FRA inspections to crossings and track have been performed. It will take a big effort to effect full service. Wednesday morning, I suppose we'll be back.

Just a side note: Newsday is continuing to call this the "Blizzard of the Century". If you live in Mom's basement and can't reach the windows perhaps you believe that rag. Or perhaps you believe that trains aren't waterproof, or that they derail in the snow. Or that nobody has a reason be outside when it snows.

Bring me some more chips, Mom!

Another stellar post by Tool. Not sure why the governor, who knows nothing about trains, should be able to shut the place down.

Better to be safe... back in 1969 (Feb 9-10) they forecast 2-4 inches, changing to rain. Then changed to 4-8 inches, changing to rain. Then it became 6-10 inches, changing to rain. Then 8-12 inches, changing to rain. Finally it became accumulations in excess of 16 inches. The city never reacted, expecting it to change to rain. By the time they did react it was too late. The city was shutdown for days including the LIRR, schools, shipping, essential services, many streets and even the stock exchange.

So better to be ready and have it fizzle out. More on the Feb 1969 Nor'easter.

BTW driving west on Rt 17/i-86 from Binghamton Sunday evening we saw several caravans of snow plows heading east.

LongIslandTool wrote:Some interesting politics: The Railroad is scrambling to resume service, as Jamaica has only seen 6" of snow. Far Rockaway has 4", and Hempstead 8". The LIRR's management did not want to shut the place down and only did so on the Governor's orders. Losses are roughly $17 million from the shutdown, and there's a question of whether the State will reimburse the operating budget for their fiasco. We assume a vocal outcry will demand refunds for unusable tickets.

Now the Company has been scrambling since 3 AM to get crews together, many of whom were told to go home and face arrest if they drove their cars prior to 9 AM this morning. The NYAR ran patrol trains, which were generally not needed.

I would expect some limited service by late morning, with probably an announcement that modified weekend schedules are in effect beginning at 1 or 3 PM. The problem is that many switch heaters have not been lit, little maintenance and inspections done and no FRA inspections to crossings and track have been performed. It will take a big effort to effect full service. Wednesday morning, I suppose we'll be back.

Just a side note: Newsday is continuing to call this the "Blizzard of the Century". If you live in Mom's basement and can't reach the windows perhaps you believe that rag. Or perhaps you believe that trains aren't waterproof, or that they derail in the snow. Or that nobody has a reason be outside when it snows.

Bring me some more chips, Mom!

$17 million in losses for the LIRR, plus more for Metro North and NYC trains and busses
Add some more millions for businesses that could not open today and you are talking real money

BTW -- Does anyone still read Newsday? Most of the papers left behind on the train are the Daily News and the Post

17 million is chicken shit , they saved that in law suits alone by shutting down.

DutchRailnut wrote:17 million is chicken * , they saved that in law suits alone by shutting down.

Thats a nice way of looking at things.

Another way to look at is that this is why our taxes and fares to ride public transportation are so high

ThirdRail7 wrote:I think the problem that people like Tool and myself have is the enormous pride we have/had in operations. Sure, not every obstacle can be overcome. However, years ago, people put boots on the ground, engines on the rails and MADE it happen. You had resources to deploy. You didn't give up at the forecast of snow. Granted, I was never a fan of "run and rescue" but if you planned accordingly and managed your resources properly, your "rescues" would most likely not exceed the number you have on a normal day.

It was a thrill and a rush to say to people "this is what we do!"

Not anymore. The towel is thrown in without turning a wheel. People that have been around for a while know that you can get it done if the will is there.
Unfortunately, It no longer exists particularly in the face of "I'll sue," and while I certainly understand why service is shutdown, there is a still a part of me that is willing to dig in, hotel down and show anyone that shows up "this is what we're here for. This is what we do!"

It's great that railroad workers want to go out and take that risk, but for the railroad's we're talking about, the things that the train crews are carrying are not corn, potatoes, oil or whatever, they're humans. I'm not sure how much pride you would have left over if you ran a signal because visibility was so poor during a blizzard, or your train got stranded in the middle of NEC or in the middle of a forest someplace and one or more passengers fell severely ill or died due to the conditions. Something like that hasn't happened yet--and the railroads have been very lucky during severe weather--but that's no reason to tempt fate.

EM2000 wrote:That's because the titles you listed serve essential job functions, and those risks are associated with that. You on the other hand do not serve an essential function. Don't let your inferiority complex confuse reality. BTW, make sure to tell a Cop or Fireman that the next time you need assistance in a hurricane.

Make sure you tell your doctor you don't think he's essential next time you are ill or injured and need treatment. Like I said, cops, firefighters, and railroad workers don't have any special superpowers that us mere mortals don't have. Don't let your superiority complex confuse reality.

Last night demonstrated that people can go without the LIRR for a few hours during the middle of a blizzard and survive. I heard zero reports of a [sane] person wanting to go out and travel in the middle of a blizzard and were upset because they were unable to do so. Most people were at home, where they were instructed to be.