Naming Metro-North: Were there any alternative names?

I thought the old script logo was cool, but represented an industrial age when everything was dark and smokey, and the trains were green or black to hide the soot.

That the NH McGinnes look is fresh today is a testament to the designers. Most 1950's designs remind us of the space race and tailfins on Caddys. It's also bright (good for safety at grade crossing and stations).

You'll notice that a lot of modern passenger trains have a swirl or swoosh of colors, as do most airplanes (on their tail). It's pretty generic and period-oriented. I'm curious what we'll think of this era in design twenty years from now, and how identifiable the swish/swirl look will be with relation to a decade.

examples:
-Amtrak P42 blue swoosh
-Rocky Mountaineer swoosh on every car
-TRAX Utah's blue and red swirls
-LA Metrolink's new teal swirl
-UAL's new dreamliner swoosh
-Boeing's new corporate swoosh livery
-LAN Chile's new blue swoosh

Personally I think it's a snoozer of a trend and nothing amazing. Simple stripes, solid dip, or the art-deco-inspired streamliner looks are better.

-Wabash solid blue
-SP Sunset red stripe
-MNCR new P32 look
-MNCR tri-color FL9 look (this was a winner for sure)

Despite the flack the new MNCR P32 look got at the beginning, it's miles better than the "design by microsoft powerpoint - add shapes" look the P32's came in originally.

Mm yeah I know it would be a long shot to use such an intricate logo. That being said, what Ridgefielder suggested about re-branding the New Haven Line and Springfield Line services as the NYNH&H would really make a whole lot of sense as it would consolidate operations and make it a true regional carrier, which Metro-North has gradually become over the years, instead of just commuter rail. The name could still be used with the MTA logo/style of branding for all NY state owned equipment, stations, etc. and with the CT state seal or CT Commuter Rail logo for all CT owned stuff. And if they need a shorter name to simply refer the rail line to they can just call it "the New Haven" like the old days

DutchRailnut wrote:In Donald Nelsons words" why would we honor the loosers in railroad business"
We took a bankrupt rag tag scrapheap and made a railroad out of it, so why would we honor the thiefs ??

Not to totally revive this thread up.. but considering the poor image MNR has attained from last year's accidents and derailments re-naming the Hudson and Harlem lines as the "MTA New York Central" and the New Haven Line as the "MTA New York, New Haven & Hartford" or just renaming the whole MNR system as the "MTA Grand Central & Northern" (similar to what was suggested back in the early 1980s) probably wouldn't be as far fetched an idea as one might think at this point. Whatever feelings one had towards the NYC and the NH, most of today's commuters either 1) wouldn't remember or know of either railroad 2) wouldn't remember the worst days of either RR and/or 3) wouldn't think negatively about a name change anyway. If anything it could represent a whole new image. New name, new attitudes, new ideas, etc. etc.

I'm not saying "it's definitely gonna happen" though. The new president has probably never even had it comes across his mind once. But I wouldn't be too surprised if a decision was made to do so anyway.

NH2060 wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:In Donald Nelsons words" why would we honor the loosers in railroad business"
We took a bankrupt rag tag scrapheap and made a railroad out of it, so why would we honor the thiefs ??

Not to totally revive this thread up.. but considering the poor image MNR has attained from last year's accidents and derailments re-naming the Hudson and Harlem lines as the "MTA New York Central" and the New Haven Line as the "MTA New York, New Haven & Hartford" or just renaming the whole MNR system as the "MTA Grand Central & Northern" (similar to what was suggested back in the early 1980s) probably wouldn't be as far fetched an idea as one might think at this point. Whatever feelings one had towards the NYC and the NH, most of today's commuters either 1) wouldn't remember or know of either railroad 2) wouldn't remember the worst days of either RR and/or 3) wouldn't think negatively about a name change anyway. If anything it could represent a whole new image. New name, new attitudes, new ideas, etc. etc.

I'm not saying "it's definitely gonna happen" though. The new president has probably never even had it comes across his mind once. But I wouldn't be too surprised if a decision was made to do so anyway.

I doubt they'd do that. The cost of rebranding would not be trivial. You'd need new logos on the locomotives, rolling stock, stations, uniforms, you name it. Then you'd need to revise likely thousands of pages of contracts, work agreements, etc. to change the words "Metro-North" to whatever your new name is.

The LIRR name has survived PRR ownership, near-bankruptcy, State takeover, years of neglect and the horror of the Richmond Hill wreck. Three derailments and a year or so of bad service aren't going to be enough to kill the MNRR name.

Ridgefielder wrote: I doubt they'd do that. The cost of rebranding would not be trivial. You'd need new logos on the locomotives, rolling stock, stations, uniforms, you name it.

I agree. Although back home in the UK, our privatised franchised system means that rail operators spend thousands changing the name, logo and usually the livery every time a franchise changes hands, sometimes after just five or seven years.

Then you'd need to revise likely thousands of pages of contracts, work agreements, etc. to change the words "Metro-North" to whatever your new name is.

Not necessarily - isn't Metro-North's legal name still the "Metro-North Commuter Railroad Company"?

rpjs wrote:

Ridgefielder wrote: I doubt they'd do that. The cost of rebranding would not be trivial. You'd need new logos on the locomotives, rolling stock, stations, uniforms, you name it.

I agree. Although back home in the UK, our privatised franchised system means that rail operators spend thousands changing the name, logo and usually the livery every time a franchise changes hands, sometimes after just five or seven years.

The exceptions of course being South West Trains, Southeastern, First Great Western, Midland Mainline, Virgin Trains, and GNER each of which I think had/have 10 years+ but even that is a very short lifespan for a service name. And others such as Cross Country and ScotRail have had "Virgin" and "First" added in front and then taken off. And if want a really short one, try National Express East Coast. Didn't even last 2 years and then And apparently that franchise's official name is InterCity East Coast regardless of which TOC runs it. And that I think has something to do with the fact that the franchise is publically owned. It would probably be better explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Coast_(train_operating_company" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Ridgefielder wrote:I doubt they'd do that. The cost of rebranding would not be trivial. You'd need new logos on the locomotives, rolling stock, stations, uniforms, you name it. Then you'd need to revise likely thousands of pages of contracts, work agreements, etc. to change the words "Metro-North" to whatever your new name is.

The LIRR name has survived PRR ownership, near-bankruptcy, State takeover, years of neglect and the horror of the Richmond Hill wreck. Three derailments and a year or so of bad service aren't going to be enough to kill the MNRR name.

Agreed. As much as I think it would be neat to have "MTA New York Central", etc. I don't think it should be necessary to change the service branding in order to improve the public image of the railroad. People have been complaining about MNR for a long time before last year. I commuted on MNR for about 5 years and never had any real complaints nor did I have a bad image of it. The only real issue I had was once expecting to get on a New Haven train only to then find out it was going to New Canaan! And there were a number of other riders in my shoes too The announcement was rather garbled so it was hard to hear amongst the noise @ the station. But I certainly wasn't ready to complain to the railroad about what really was an honest misunderstanding. If something went wrong most of the time I would just go "ah" or "oh well" and I think most commuters have the same attitude. Even when the New Haven Line lost power last year most riders interviewed on the news just took it in stride.

NH2060 wrote: The exceptions of course being South West Trains, Southeastern, First Great Western, Midland Mainline, Virgin Trains, and GNER each of which I think had/have 10 years+ but even that is a very short lifespan for a service name. And others such as Cross Country and ScotRail have had "Virgin" and "First" added in front and then taken off. And if want a really short one, try National Express East Coast. Didn't even last 2 years and then And apparently that franchise's official name is InterCity East Coast regardless of which TOC runs it. And that I think has something to do with the fact that the franchise is publically owned. It would probably be better explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Coast_(train_operating_company" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

And even the fact that "south" and "eastern" appeared in the trading name of the Kent franchise since privatisation, the actual trading name has varied between "Connex South Eastern" (private) to "South Eastern Trains" (public) to "Southeastern" (private). The current *legal* name for Southeastern is "London & South Eastern Railway Ltd", and the current *franchise* name is "Integrated Kent Franchise" but only the Department for Transport uses that.

As well as all the changes to publicity and signs the above shenanigans would imply, when Connex were stripped of the franchise for poor financial management, they required their logos to be removed immediately from all trains and signage as soon as the interim state operator took over. The current private operator, part of Govia, eventually modified the livery but for a long time the trains still ran in Connex white and yellow.

Mod Note: Let's not worry about what happens across the pond.