All service stopped

Yeah, what Westporter says.

Look, guys, there are real issues here, and they're not all unrelated. Doesn't matter what Senator Schumer says or does, or Blumenthal, or the former head of the commuters' council. These incidents all show an alarmingly casual attitude on management's part about keeping things in proper working order. Really, nothing to back-up critical system software? Ayfkm?

No, I am not blaming the unions. I am well-aware that when I was stuck on the train Wednesday and last night, so were the conductors and the engineers. I am certain they don't like being stuck anymore than the passengers do. And the guys they sent out in the middle of the night in 5 degree weather to unfreeze the switches? No, again, I am not blaming them. No one here is.

But pretending that there are no issues and that passengers are a bunch of whining babies is not going to make things better. Subpoenas sent to 347 Madison might. Just saying.

Westporter wrote:The offensive quote:
"""Jim Cameron, former chairman of the Connecticut Metro-North Commuter Council, said that the railroad "dropped the ball in communicating the crisis, short as it was." Cameron said that he saw some "really ugly comments from those stranded" posted to Twitter."""

This is "piling on?"

MNR's communications efforts are unfortunately getting worse not better. Platform announcements are rare and usually off the mark. Those "Good Service" signs are useless, unless you've forgotten what day it is. There are conductors who try to make helpful announcements but there are a lot who don't bother to make any. The PR department is usually a day late and a dollar short on information, and always on the defensive.

Yet ostriches on this board bemoan the passengers, politicians and Jim Cameron.

Yes, that is piling on. It's what Cameron does. He throws out sensationalist statements to enflame the public against the RR. Seizes incidents without recognizing context, and sometimes just pulls it wholly out of his butt when there's no incident. "...real ugly comments" on Twitter...without attribution? How is that not provocative.

I don't doubt that there are legitimate issues here, but you're not bringing them up in any productive way by wagging a finger at this board and citing an utterly discredited moron and attention whore like Cameron as your evidence as to why this board should feel chastened. Or whatever it is you're on about.

Is this an exercise in constructive criticism, or are you going out of your way to feel superior to someone?

Westporter wrote:The offensive quote:
"""Jim Cameron, former chairman of the Connecticut Metro-North Commuter Council, said that the railroad "dropped the ball in communicating the crisis, short as it was." Cameron said that he saw some "really ugly comments from those stranded" posted to Twitter."""

This is "piling on?"

MNR's communications efforts are unfortunately getting worse not better. Platform announcements are rare and usually off the mark. Those "Good Service" signs are useless, unless you've forgotten what day it is. There are conductors who try to make helpful announcements but there are a lot who don't bother to make any. The PR department is usually a day late and a dollar short on information, and always on the defensive.

Yet ostriches on this board bemoan the passengers, politicians and Jim Cameron.

You ought to have seen him on Twitter last night, since he quit he's just been obnoxiously antagonistic...even moreso than before!

Kudos to the Courant for recognizing that he's no longer the mouthpiece of the council.

Ok, let's pretend for a minute that there is no such thing as Twitter.

We still have a systemic issue with how MNRR is managed. You industry pros can pretend otherwise, but you're just fooling yourselves.

and we still have issue of Connecticut underfunding its operation and Commuters not paying fair share.
the issue is about yesterdays computer glitch and trains stopped, its not about your personal rants on service. this is a rail fan forum, not a commuter bitch list.

To refocus:

MTA's press release reads as follows:

At 7:45 p.m. power to the computer system that controls all Metro-North train movements was interrupted.
Rail traffic controllers took the immediate safe course of action and instructed all train engineers, via radio, to bring their trains to a stop at the first, nearest station. Customers were able to exit the train if they wished.

I am an IT manager who works on mission-critical systems. At my employer, when our systems fail it costs us money, reputation, and potentially triggers regulatory inquiry. So our mission critical systems all have multiple levels of redundancy: Dual power supplies in every cabinet; each power supply on a different breaker; each of those breakers on a separate feeder from the electrical utility; battery UPS (for short outages) and generator backup (for longer outages). Dual network links. Backup machines in case the primary fails, etc...

Given this experience, I wonder how something as crucial as the "computer system that controls all Metro-North movements" could be brought down by a simple power outage. Multi-level power redundancy is standard equipment for mission critical computing resources. How can this not be in place for a system which could strand thousands of commuters?

DutchRailnut wrote:and we still have issue of Connecticut underfunding its operation and Commuters not paying fair share.
the issue is about yesterdays computer glitch and trains stopped, its not about your personal rants on service. this is a rail fan forum, not a commuter bitch list.

Oh, how irresponsible of me. I actually thought it was a forum for public-service employees (yes, the MTA and CDOT are public entities) to 1) gloat about how wonderful it is that there is no accountability whatsoever when you're not in the private sector, and 2) constantly say "screw you, paying passengers! You bow down to us!" Apologies for my unfamiliarity. Please, continue the messenger-shooting as well as the love-fest between foamers and the BLE as you giddily ignore serious issues while placing your fingers in your collective ears and yell loudly. Enjoy.

Yeah, I know, it's my last post. I'll disable my log-in myself and won't let the door hit me, etc.

Jesus Christ, who let NHAirhead re-register.

spidey3 wrote:To refocus:

MTA's press release reads as follows:

At 7:45 p.m. power to the computer system that controls all Metro-North train movements was interrupted.
Rail traffic controllers took the immediate safe course of action and instructed all train engineers, via radio, to bring their trains to a stop at the first, nearest station. Customers were able to exit the train if they wished.

I am an IT manager who works on mission-critical systems. At my employer, when our systems fail it costs us money, reputation, and potentially triggers regulatory inquiry. So our mission critical systems all have multiple levels of redundancy: Dual power supplies in every cabinet; each power supply on a different breaker; each of those breakers on a separate feeder from the electrical utility; battery UPS (for short outages) and generator backup (for longer outages). Dual network links. Backup machines in case the primary fails, etc...

Given this experience, I wonder how something as crucial as the "computer system that controls all Metro-North movements" could be brought down by a simple power outage. Multi-level power redundancy is standard equipment for mission critical computing resources. How can this not be in place for a system which could strand thousands of commuters?

Thank you for this reply. In a nutshell, you've asked the very question(s) I want and need answered. Metro-North is part of the MTA. No one I know likes the MTA. Now, maybe, we will be able to begin listening to those who have been screaming about the MTA's inefficiency and suspected corruption for too long without anyone taking notice. Note that the MTA also oversees the Long Island Railroad, another model transportation venture.

I think most employees here would agree that there are aspects of the railroad that are mismanaged, it's definitely true. However, not everything falls under that category; sometimes things just happen well-managed or not. Often times the public and those who post here mistakenly put an incident in the wrong category without knowing the facts. What happened yesterday was probably a mismanagement, not having redundant systems. However nothing will ever be fail proof, and problems are bound to arise, things that no manager public or private could control.

Sounds all too familar : NJ Transit Signal Outage Oct. 8

Saugatuck wrote:Okay, since no one else seems aware that the emperor has no clothes, allow me to announce that...the emperor has no clothes.
This means that it appears, perhaps, that we are looking at systemic failure: failure to follow established safety procedures, failure to maintain equipment, infrastructure, and yes, yes, even software systems.
"Oh, but Saugatuck, these are just isolated incidents that could happen to any large, complex organization that must deal with old equipment, grouchy passengers, schlocky politicians, etcetera. This is not an indication of an organization in serious trouble. Not at all."

Bridgeport, West Haven, the garbage train, the Mt Vernon power issue, SDV, last night's catenary, tonight's software failure. You cannot say that these are but isolated, tragic, unrelated...incidents/acts of God/unfortunate occurrences but nothing indicative of structural, institutional failure. Come on, really? After 30 years of pretty damn good operations (especially 2000-2010) all of this in less than one year? No one else thinks there's something going on here beyond coincidence?

If I may, the terms "power outage" and "software glitch" are quite vague. If there has been an official cause listed for the outage, I've missed it. That being said, this incident may be the result of outside interference that led to the failure, much like the Con-Ed incident. I also must have missed the official cause for the freight train derailment (and I just tried again..perhaps I'm using bad search parameters,) so it may not be related to any performance by Metro-North. SD was an unfortunate incident but it was the first in over 100 years of negotiating that curve and the first incident with the employee involved. I'd hardly call that a cultural problem or a systematic failure.

The only common thread is what you and the press has mentioned. For 30 years, you've had a good run as the infrastructure ages. Do you really think 100 year old catenary is a good thing? It is being replaced slowly but surely as are bridges and roadbeds. However, the demands the passengers place on "more service and less fares" have finally caught up at a time when a lot of the seasoned veterans are retiring en mass.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: You get what you (don't) pay for, and when asked to ante up, the groans come out.

Along those lines, who would willingly pay more, for less service while Metro-North blitzes their infrastructure? If Metro-North said "we're going to cut back on service and we will not operate any more express trains while we replace every component of the railroad on a given track (like they were doing during the Fairfield incident and the Con-Ed incident), would more people gripe or applaud?

So far, they've griped.

You can try to have it both ways, but it doesn't work in the real world. Time and age has finally caught up to Metro-North.

BTW,how old is their dispatching center? Assuming there is some sort of fatal flaw that caused the incident, is it time to replace the center? You can only upgrade software for so long.

Saugatuck wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:and we still have issue of Connecticut underfunding its operation and Commuters not paying fair share.
the issue is about yesterdays computer glitch and trains stopped, its not about your personal rants on service. this is a rail fan forum, not a commuter bitch list.

Oh, how irresponsible of me. I actually thought it was a forum for public-service employees (yes, the MTA and CDOT are public entities) to 1) gloat about how wonderful it is that there is no accountability whatsoever when you're not in the private sector, and 2) constantly say "screw you, paying passengers! You bow down to us!" Apologies for my unfamiliarity. Please, continue the messenger-shooting as well as the love-fest between foamers and the BLE as you giddily ignore serious issues while placing your fingers in your collective ears and yell loudly. Enjoy.

Yeah, I know, it's my last post. I'll disable my log-in myself and won't let the door hit me, etc.

hallelujah there is a God

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:Jesus Christ, who let NHAirhead re-register.

LOL somehow the argument of needing diesels and RDC's would have been brought up if it were him

Third Rail, the OCC isn't very old at all.