Amtrak Southwest Chief Discussion

The Arkansas City sub would be used from Newton to Mulvane Ks(Jct with the Transcon),it is not up to passenger specs at this point.
While extending the Heartland Flyer to Newton is a possibilty,the dropping/adding of cars at Newton,may not be possible.
Anytime you switch cars around(Like #48/49 at Albany,#7/8 at Spokane, #1/2 at San Antoino) adds time to the trip and
can be disruptive for passengers and private car owners.
#3+#4 is a favorite for PV runs to/from Chicago and eastward from LA,would not enjoy losing HEP while cars are
switched around enroute.

Is the temporary loss of HEP really as inconvenient as connecting to another train at 3 in the morning in Newton, Kansas??? I've done this switch-out on trains before at Spokane, Salt Lake City (California Zephyr to the Desert Wind), and San Antonio. Truth be told, I slept right through them and never knew they were even taking place.

Ever woken up in the middle of the night and had to use the restroom? Ever done that when the power is out?

I don't think that's something that should be "scheduled" in the middle of the night... Emergencies are one thing, every night is not.

ctclark1 wrote:Ever woken up in the middle of the night and had to use the restroom? Ever done that when the power is out?

I don't think that's something that should be "scheduled" in the middle of the night... Emergencies are one thing, every night is not.

Don't that a few times. And my house doesn't have the emergency lighting a sleeper has.

Personally, I think if one were to do it, the middle of the night is among the best times.

With the event of efficent led lighting , plenty of light could be provided using the battery backup on the cars . Perhaps Mr Clark (?)is referring to flushing the toilet in the superliner ??

ctclark1 wrote:Ever woken up in the middle of the night and had to use the restroom? Ever done that when the power is out?

I don't think that's something that should be "scheduled" in the middle of the night... Emergencies are one thing, every night is not.

Well Amtrak already does that for the Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle and the Empire Builder.

And i'm thinking , if this reroute goes ahead , then i hope the bypased towns push for plenty of compensation , in the way of thruway bus connections , to Kansas city , denver , and New Mexico . preferably daytime as well as overnite .

David Benton wrote:And i'm thinking , if this reroute goes ahead , then i hope the bypased towns push for plenty of compensation , in the way of thruway bus connections , to Kansas city , denver , and New Mexico . preferably daytime as well as overnite .

They can ask for it, but few, if any, of other cities on discontinued long distance services ever received them.

Thing is, the task of combining and separating trains is done all the time at Albany, San Antonio, and Spokane all the time and was routine at Salt Lake City with the Desert Wind, California Zephyr, and Pioneer being separated or joined together. And multiple locomotive changes are made routinely at Washington DC (and New Haven before that.) It's not like this is a new concept.

Let's look at the options.....

1. Combining/Separating the Southwest Chief with/from a "Texas Chief" at somewhere like Wichita, Newton, or even Kansas City. (Wellington Kansas is the actual point where the routes diverge and the town is large enough to warrant a stop, but I don't know if there is the track space or facilities to combine and separate trains there. It makes the most sense logistically to do it in Kansas City.)

Pros: Convenience that through passengers do not need to change trains or even change cars and can ride on one ticket to Kansas City, Chicago and points between.
Cons: Temporary loss of some electrical power with exception of emergency lighting.

2. Passengers change trains at Newton, Wichita, or Kansas City in the middle of the night.
Pros: A.No Loss of power to either train. B. Better than no train service at all. C. Less expense and fewer logistical issues than combining and separating trains.
Cons: A. Tough sell to potential paying through passengers who would look at the middle-of-the-night connection in the middle of nowhere and decide to check out www.southwest.com. B. Tough sell to advocacy groups who would be working hard to get the service reinstated.

3. Through "Texas Chief" all the way from Chicago to Fort Worth.
Pros: Convenience of one train all the way without the hassle of connections and no logistical issues of combining or separating trains.
Cons: A. Most expensive option for multiple reasons and longest to actually bring to fruition. B. Long laborious negotiations with BNSF to allow a second passenger train between Chicago and Wellington, if they ever agree to it at all.

4. Motor Coach Service between Oklahoma City and Wellington/Wichita/Newton/Kansas City to connect SWC with Heartland Flyer.
Pros: A. Least expensive option that connects the services. B. Good incremental measure while logistics of getting a train between Oklahoma City and Wellington are worked out.
Cons: A. Even tougher sell to potential through passengers connecting from a bus to a train in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere. B. Tough sell to advocacy groups.

5. Status Quo with no service at all between Oklahoma City and points North and East.
Pros: A. Least expensive option. B. Requires the least effort and advocacy.
Cons: A. Most restrictive on travel options. Back behind the wheel or going to Oklahoma City to fly Southwest. B. Region foregoes the potential economic benefits of having a passenger train service that region.

I can live with the reroute from Newton- Mulvane,then west on the Transcon,but rerouting via OKC-Ft Worth is out of the Question,
it would involve the UP,Ft Worth-Sweetwater,then BNSF Sweetwater-Lubbock-Clovis,then west on the Transcon,UP will say NO WAY
and demand $$$ for "Improvements" to boot!!
Extending the Heartland Flyer to Wichita for a cross platform transfer to the Chief might be possible,but extensive rehab of the
Wichita Union Terminal facilty will need to be done.
Leave the current routing of the Eagle alone,it serves the D-FW metroplex daily along with the Flyer.

Backshophoss wrote:I can live with the reroute from Newton- Mulvane,then west on the Transcon,but rerouting via OKC-Ft Worth is out of the Question,
it would involve the UP,Ft Worth-Sweetwater,then BNSF Sweetwater-Lubbock-Clovis,then west on the Transcon,UP will say NO WAY
and demand $$$ for "Improvements" to boot!!
Extending the Heartland Flyer to Wichita for a cross platform transfer to the Chief might be possible,but extensive rehab of the
Wichita Union Terminal facilty will need to be done.
Leave the current routing of the Eagle alone,it serves the D-FW metroplex daily along with the Flyer.

Where did I mention re-routing the Southwest Chief via OKC and Fort Worth????? And where did I mention anything about changing the routing of the Texas Eagle???

The two things I brought up were 1. Moving the SWC to BNSF's SOUTHERN TRANSCON route via Wichita, Wellington, Woodward (OK), Amarillo and Clovis, and 2. IF that was done, that would reduce the service gap between the Heartland Flyers route from Oklahoma City to Wellington Kansas just 135 miles away. Should that happen, I asked what it would take to close that gap so that there's a connection of the two services in some way.

If the SWC is rerouted onto the BNSF Southern transcon, extensive rehab of the Wichita Union Terminal facility will need to be done and should be done ANYWAY. We're talking about a City of 400.000 people making it the largest city between Kansas City and Albuquerque and among the largest Cities without direct Amtrak service today. Adding an extended Heartland Flyer or some sort of revived "Texas Chief" or "Lone Star" to the mix would re-apportion the Station's overhead costs to two trains instead of just one.

Gov Martinez got her wish,this was announced after the 60-day session of the state legislature,Fair use quote,per regs,
"Gov.Susanna Martinez administration has reached an agreement for the BNSF Railway Co. to pull the plug on a
never completed purchase of about 180 miles of track,and the company will refund $ 5 million fronted by the state for the
line be her predecessor"
Farther down in the Associated Press article;
"Martinez said BNSF also release $ 50 million in state transportation money that's held in escrow
to cover possible liability in case of an accident involving the commuter rail operation"(NMRX)
As leverage, the Martinez administration used the porposed Locomotive Fuel tax break as long as the $$$
is spent in NM.
BNSF is considering putting in Natural Gas Fueling Facilites in Belen, and is planning on track work near Vaughn and
Fort Sumner on the Transcon

This was on pg c-3 Local news, http://www.santafenewmexican.com

hmmm , not much of a paper to not ask several questions .
BNSF is not a charity , how much of a tax break is it going to get , and what has it to do with this railroad line ?.
What happens if there's an accident on the commuter line now , who pays ??
if it was going to cost the state $ 8 million to maintain , how much will it cost bnsf , and why would they pay it . ???
I can only assume bnsf will either close the line , or ask amtrak to pony up the $ 8 million per year . either way there's obviously no support for the current route from NM , so it looks like the end .

The article was a bit confusing, but after re-reading it, it looks like they're only addressing Lamy and east, where essentially nothing runs but 3/4. The Railrunner commuter train no only does not run east of Lamy, it splits off the main a few miles west of Lamy.

The segment in question is the former Raton Pass route, which BNSF has minimized after increasing capacity on the newer Transcon line through Amarillo. 3/4 are some of the last trains on the line, and BNSF asked Amtrak to move the train or pay for upkeep.

The author might be a "stringer"(aka freelance reporter),the "real" reason is to downgrade the Las Animas Jct to Newton Ks
to 40 mph with currently 1 local train servicing the route and grain extras during the harvest and a safety valve during flood events.
Theres been a partial revival of the Colo&Wyo Railway from the connection at Jansen Co due to coal mining restarting along that ROW.

NMDOT still runs a bus Commuter run from Las Vegas NM to Santa Fe,then onward to Los Alamos,the Las Vegas NM to Santa Fe segment
could be handled by NMRX,But would allow(Trinidad-) Raton-Lamy to be sold to a shortline operator with BNSF retaining overhead rights.
Most of the York Canyon branch still has track in place and was used for car storage till the then pending sale to NM.