Pesky Tender Swapping Again

Following up with a convo from a few months ago. .
I was talking with Dave and Rich about what the tender of LIRR 193.
So when i was there i got a bunch of pix of the tender
Edit: Anyone know what unit this actually came from? Not to mention the numbering of it. .
I think its s tossup between a Camelback and a H6





- Paul

North side clearly says ISLAND if you can see through the years of weathering

What is your question about the tender?

Dave

I think it's a modified tender off a retired H6sb. The LIRR was scrapping the H6's around the time that 193 got a new tender. She has hallmark Pennsy characteristics, and the modifications would have been warranted at the time, with shops, steel, and skilled men with facilities to do the mods. She may have been built with a Camelback type tender, but this one was a step up.
Nice series of photos to document the piece as well, Paul. You might give the readers a description of the plows interior and status for cosmetic restoration.

They have been wanting to do a cosmo resto, but the focus is set on the 3 steam engines at the moment. The interior still looks pretty much the same, the reverser and seat mounts are still in the engineers location, somthing i didnt catch last time. I moved the page i had on my site to my archives index since i got more photos. . new link is followe dif anyone is interested.

http://espeemw.rrpicturearchives.net/ar ... px?id=8248
Captions will be up in a day or to. .

According to the data I've read, the original tender was replaced with a steel Pennsy tender. From what type locomotive it was originally taken was not indicated.

Can't help any further. Sorry!

Dave

Well, it's not from a H6. H6 tenders had differant trucks. From what my PRR book show, its either an H8. or G5s early tender.

Check out this image from Arrt's Arrchives. I think it's an H6sb tender.

http://arrts-arrchives.com/images3/301mp.jpg

Here's an H6 tender and it's straight and level across the top:


And here's another with a slight dip along the top:



Dave

Well. upon further examination of documents i have, I will be willing to bet that: One, it is NOT from an H-6sb. I am not convined it has the correct trucks for a SB series Consol. However, I may grant you that it is from a E-6 Atlantic or more likley, a K-2 Pacific. In the photo of the rear of the tender, notice there is a hole in the rear of the frame. I would imagine that is where a conductor's signal line would pass through to the cab, not needed on a freight locomotive. In adition, notice there are two distinct sets of rivets that run parallel to the cab starting from the intercept point of the slope sheets. That rivet line is for the deck of the tender. Now, why would there be two sets of rivets for one deck? Well, the answer is the deck hight was changed to accomodate a differant sized locomotive, Perhaps a G5? I think the tender was changed out post WW-2, the E-6 and the K-4s, H-6 and 10s were still the property and going strong. Doesnt make sence to pull a tender from a (to quote Sir Topanhat ) "usefull engines"? Isn't this the time the K-2s were leaving for the razor farm?
Now someone post an H6sb picture with a cear view of the trucks and that should either settle it, or add more to the mystery.
Scooby Doo where are you?

Paul brings up some valid points here. . but dont forget, this tender has been modified for snow service, the coal bunker was sealed up and raised. ALso trucks could have been changed out in its time. . Maybe the tender came from a wrecked unit?

- Paul

Those are "dolphin" or "dolphin beam" trucks, developed for the 70P66 tenders used with E6s engines. This info thanks to RR Museum of PA website. Maybe?

Okay, so if it's off an Atlantic, the tender had to come from the Pennsy, as the LIRR never owned Atlantics, but ran a bunch. It sure isn't from an E6, as the class was alive and well at the time of the tender switch. I think images of H6sb's can be found with that tender and truck design. I'll haveto check out Pennsy Power and Apex of the Atlantics. PRR was great for tender swaps, even amongst a wide variety of classes. Nothing other than the trucks tells me that it isn't from an H6sb. LIRR would have had surplus H6 tenders at this time and the mods mae perfect sense. The modified snow shelter is obviously an "after market" item. I can say for certain that it didn't come off a K4s, M1b, I1sa, or T1. I guess that is how far I am prepared to concede at this point. I think.

Add G5 to the list, tender rivit details are 100% different then 193s.

Again . . mix and match!

Straight top here:


And a little dip on this one:


And . . . definitely not a G5s tender, either the early lower type (short type):


or the later tall type:


Ach du Lieber!

Dave