PC verbals

Clem, Sean 418, Form 19,

You guys said it all! Apparently, railroads across the nation seem to be hiring personnel unqualified (at least intially) to do their jobs. I hear tales told of railroads like UP hiring dispatchers off the street who have NEVER seen the territory they're supposedly dispatching. This is absolutely appalling!

Thirty years ago I WALKED nearly every inch of "our" railroad (East New York and Flatbush Avenue tunnels being the main exceptions, of course) and drew MY OWN physical characteristics maps (which, BTW, blow away the ones currently given out, quality-wise ). Yes, this took MANY months, BUT, I knew (and still know to a lesser degree these days) EVERY INCH of the railroad. No, I couldn't tell you where 38L signal was in relation to 40L at Hall off the top of my head but I COULD tell you exactly where the three (and only 3!) automatic block signals were located that were capable of displaying an approach-slow aspect. Obsessive-compulsive, perhaps, but I really KNEW the railroad.

I agree, UN. That's the way it was. The huge reason for the hiring change is simply money. The railroads no longer pay a wage that commands first-rate employees.

Spend a few minutes with a good inflation chart, account for the lack of what was once a typical pension and you'll see why railroads no longer attract the choicest employees.

People hired today may actually find it difficult to one day own even a modest home.

Clem

A little defense for my brothers
when a former "section A" dispatcher (unqualified on the rest of the road) administers his first test , maybe he should at least find out from the training dept what exactly we are trained on!
Harold and F interlockings are the responsibility of PSCC "ZONE A" and for that part of qualifying we go to AMTRAK rules dept
Conductor Qualification is based on "ZONE C" physical charecteristics
And as for this "dispatcher" failing guys for using the port wash switching lead switch off the main????
His answer was that "section A" would not use this switch to access 8 track
This is not a test of theoric
If the switch is not blocked spiked out of service than it can be used
whether the "A" dispatcher likes it or not

UTU, my guess is that one of your "brothers" stated that you can access 8 track in Port Washington on a move via the electric lock switch of the switching lead?

The Rules Examiner took exception to that?

I can tell you that before "Section A" controlled Port Washington, in the days when Harold controlled it...if you were on an equipment train or some other non-psgr eastbound, we used that switch quite often without even asking in order to save a switch back in the yard.

If he is basing his answers on what he would do or not do then he should reconsider what he is saying. Actually, a person who discussed using that switch for a quickie move is actually being clever and should have been given better consideration.

A good Conductor or Engineer should be able to get the job done and think beyond the normal moves. I would think that the LIRR wouldn't want drones who fall apart when something is out of the norm.

In fairness to the Examiner, was he just making a point that a move like that would not be common....I mean he can make points like that as long as he don't hold it against anyone and mark them wrong. Was this the case?

Just last week, a roustabout crew used that switch to put an equipment train into Track 7 from the road. It is in service and works well if a crew knows how to operate it.

Though it is uncontrolled, remember that the Special Instructions state all moves on the Port Washington Branch are under the authority of the Section A dispatcher which tells me that he should be notified before and has the final say if a crew chose to use that switch.

So far as your words regarding the "former Section A dispatcher," this Train Dispatcher is qualified on all interlockings on the Railroad -- in Zone C, as well as the Port Washington Branch. All Train Dispatchers must be qualified on the PC in all interlockings. And the fellow to which you refer has worked all sections in the Movement Bureau.

I'm saying this in fairness to him. Now of course I don't know why he is failing guys and maybe he is completely out of line as you suggest -- but I suspect there are those who study their PC from maps and probably state on their exam that Section A can route trains into the west end of the Switching Lead. I'm sure some people don't know that this is a hand thrown, uncontrolled electric lock switch that is not controlled by Section A.

I give this examiner a bit more credit than you do. He was a fairly good dispatcher and as a fact I know he's quite familiar with that switch and how it works. I've heard the same stories you have, but I'll reserve opinion untill I sit in on a few exams...

Clemuel

It times like this that I am glad I am already qualified.

I can remember on my PC tests, written and verbal, I was asked routing in Harold, what track I could get to from line 4 going west and what Note 4 was. I was always under the impression that Zone 'A' is fair game during an exam.

But what do I know I am only an engineer!!??!

To put it simply, people aren't studying long enough or hard enough. Years ago, trainmen began studying at least one year prior to their rules exam. Today, that is not the case and the result is more failures. After failing the first exam the process snowballs with rules and PC to follow. At this point, pressure builds to pass which makes it more difficult. NOTE TO THOSE WHO ARE YET UNQUALIFIED......................STUDY NOW!!! It is never too early!!!!!!!!

Most of the people who come out of an Operating Rules or Physical Characteristic examination and fail to negotiate a passing grade generally lie about their written score. There is a rumour that someone recently received a 95% on their written test and failed their verbal. While this certainly could happen, it didn't. All I'll say is the individual was less than truthful, much less.

Listen, many things have changed in the last ten years. Seniority and the ability for a new employee to work out of their home terminal (East end, no less) and only see one or two branches until they qualify is a big one. They are warned by many people not to fall into that trap. Move around, don't work as a collector too long, hit the list. Make sure that you don't ask the wrong fellow employee to help you. There are many 'armchair' Rules Examiners in the field that have no clue and couldn't pass another qualification exam if they tried. One the other hand, there are also many proud Engineers and Conductors who take pride at not only doing their job well, but also possessing the knowledge they are supposed to have. Remeber this, Safety is of the first importance in the discharge of duty AND SAFETY DERIVES OUT OF A THOUROUGH KNOWLEDGE AND STRICT ADHERENCE TO THE RULES. Some last minute advice. Drive on your own and visit locations in person (be sure you have a vest, safety shoes, your credentials and make the necessary arrangements with 204 and the controlling operator). You can't learn much by sitting on an engine and seeing Riverhead as you pass through it in three minutes. The PC maps provided are a guide and is in no way supposed to be the sole source of information for the studying employee. You MUST keep these study aids up to date yourself.

The Training Department is chock full of an extremely knowledgeable staff that prides themselves on helping others. Seek their help.

Lastly, take pride in your postions on the railroad. We are the oldest railroad operating in the United States under their original name and we encompass more rules and different types of territory than any other railroad in North America.

With a 20 MPH speed restriction, I don't think any train can blast through Riverhead in 3 minutes.

If they do, I wouldn't be asking that engineer for advice.

Jay

The Railroad is offering "Pre Conductor Classes" again. The info is posted in the trainmens room, and protect room in NY. These classes will help those about to qualify. You will begin to get an understanding of what the tests are all about, and what they are looking for. I find the timing of the notices interesting..I wonder if "The Powers that be" read these posts?