Obscure Facts about SEPTA

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:07 pm SEPTA has both Arrow I and Arrow IIs as cab cars.

amtrakhogger wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:43 pm Septa's AEM7's were rated at 125mph but never ran that in revenue service.

The ALP44s were as well, and likely the ALP46s (though only allowed 100).

JimBoylan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:29 pm

WashingtonPark wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:41 amIn the summer of 1976 the New Hope Railroad actually ran a commuter train to Warminster in the morning and afternoon to connect with Septa. The train to Warminster in the morning and the one to New Hope in the afternoon would work the freight so it was actually a mixed train. This continued for a very short time.

Though tickets were sold. All 3 of the regular commuters asked that the subsidy be continued.

Would make a good weekend excursion for those interested in visiting New Hope/Lambertville with joint through fares. Ride from Center City or elsewhere, change at Warminster and straight to New Hope.

For a number of years they would do weekend trips like this during the fall season. I would guess they stopped because on the ones I rode on patronage was very low. They also had no bathrooms on the New Hope train and nothing at the station or on SEPTA trains so that made it pretty tough for the older generation that patronizes these trips.

The original Silverliners were the lightest AC powered EMUs built in the US. I think also the only ones that ever had right angle drive motors.

The first group of MP-54s the PRR had, could not have power re-applied to the traction motors, until speed was below 35mph. They also had dry (non PCB) transformers.

A number of Metroliners were ordered for SEPTA. I don’t know if they went to the PC for corridor service.

I have a pic of a Silverliner IV in NY Penn somewhere . I don’t know how the thing got there.

I’ve heard rumors that GG-1s occasionally snuck into Suburban. Never saw a pic of that.

Nasadowsk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 8:45 pm I’ve heard rumors that GG-1s occasionally snuck into Suburban. Never saw a pic of that.

historical-limitations-of-suburban-station-t60335.html

Nasadowsk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 8:45 pm A number of Metroliners were ordered for SEPTA. I don’t know if they went to the PC for corridor service.

SEPTA had 820-830, returned to Budd and accepted by Amtrak for corridor service in 1972-73.

Well, there’s the answers…

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:15 am

Nasadowsk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 8:45 pm A number of Metroliners were ordered for SEPTA. I don’t know if they went to the PC for corridor service.

SEPTA had 820-830, returned to Budd and accepted by Amtrak for corridor service in 1972-73.

Any good source material? Another site, without any good references, states:

The cost of the initial order was split between PRR and the Federal Government, paying 10,4 and 9,6 milion dollars respectively. Later that year, 11 more sets (22 cars) were ordered to the Budd Company by the SEPTA, the South-Eastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, on behalf of the Pennsylvania Railroad, for use on the electrified Keystone Corridor between Philadelphia and Harrisburgh.


The basis of the new Metroliners was the Pioneer III experimental electric railcar, built in 1958 by Budd (on a request by the PRR) to test new technologies intended for long-distance services in the North-East. In 1963, a variant of the Pioneer III, adapted for commtuer services, nicknamed “Silverliner” was delivered in 55 units to the PRR and Reading Railroad, to operate Philadelphia commuter services on behalf of SEPTA. An additional four Silverliner cars were ordered by the US DOT and were adapted for high-speed services to test the infrastructure of the NEC before the entry into service of the Metroliners.

Here’s one for you:

When SEPTA trains ran to Parkesburg (service was cut back to Downingtown in Nov 1996 and then re-extended to Thorndale in Nov 1999) the consists ran all the way out to CORK interlocking in Lancaster to change tracks.

The local Amish community in Paradise/Leaman Place took notice of this and approached PennDOT and Amtrak about building their own platform and having the otherwise empty commuter trains stop there. I don’t know why the plan never went forward, but I suspect it was a “nope, it’s either built to OUR standards by a contractor WE pick, not built by a group of carpenters” mentality. I’m sure SEPTA wasn’t interested in stopping since it would have beholden them to keep running beyond Parkesburg once a reason for turning back at/east of there was found. I doubt it would have attracted that many riders at the time.

The Amish probably would have built a better platform at 1/3 the cost, and in a few days.

Nasadowsk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 5:36 pm The Amish probably would have built a better platform at 1/3 the cost, and in a few days.

If they could get it ADA compliant, let them do it.

Would serving Lancaster County have required changes to SEPTA's governance structure (presumably by PA state legislation)?

I'm sure it would require financial participation by Lancaster County, which might not be forthcoming -- cf. Berks and Lehigh Counties,which declined to support service to Reading and Bethlehem which was already running.

Paradise has two issues:
1. The location would likely not be ADA compliant, which is why it was rejected by Amtrak.
2. Wouldn’t Paradise be too far to go without bathrooms? I think Atglen would be as far as you could go without adding bathrooms to trains.

rcthompson04 wrote:Paradise has two issues:
1. The location would likely not be ADA compliant, which is why it was rejected by Amtrak.
2. Wouldn’t Paradise be too far to go without bathrooms? I think Atglen would be as far as you could go without adding bathrooms to trains.

That could be solved by either:

1) Putting the station in at Old Leacock Road in Gordonville, where there is room for a parking lot.

2) Putting the station literally just NW of the Rte. 30 bridge at Leaman Place by relocating the east and west switches connecting the eastbound track to the freight siding + upgrading and electrifying the siding to allow eastbound trains to enter and exit the eastbound platform that would be located on the siding, not the mainline. In practice this would be exactly similar to how Shore Line East trains access the eastbound platform at the Guilford, CT station. This would also allow for the long proposed Strasburg RR connection (though it would have to be via a Budd car shuttle not the steam train).

3) Put the station in at Mcilvaine Road near the quarry (one of the businesses next to Rte. 30 would have to be relocated to make room for a parking lot).

The first option is more out of the way, but all 3 are equidistant to both Lancaster and Parkesburg; the latter two could still retain a “Paradise”/“Paradise Township” station name. I have no idea why a station would *HAVE* to go in at the curve where the Strasburg tracks meet in order for it to attract maximum ridership, but the powers at be sure thought so..

In any event, SEPTA does run an annual crew qualification train out to Lancaster and back in case it was ever necessary for SEPTA crews and equipment to run that far.

This, while interesting, has drifted away from "Obscure Facts about SEPTA"

AC - I will clarify somewhat the subject and history about SEPTA trains operating to Parkesburg and west:

Back in the early to mid 1990s Chester County funded a limited extension of service westward to Coatesville
and Parkesburg. This extended service ran on weekdays only - two AM Peak eastbound trains; two PM Peak
westbound trains - and a midday round trip which was scheduled west to Parkesburg terminating during
the noontime hour - and going back east during the 2 PM hour.

The AM/PM Peak trains were deadheaded to/from Frazer or Paoli (I believe) and turned at Parkesburg Station.

The midday train ended up continuing to CORK Tower in Lancaster to turn around - one reason that I recall
was to allow SEPTA T&E crew members to keep qualified on the 24 mile track segment between Parkesburg
and Lancaster. This midday train always used MU cars making the CORK turnaround simple by changing ends.

SEPTA eventually ended their weekday trains serving Coatesville and Parkesburg along with Amtrak adding
additional Keystone Service trains with service increases under the PennDot funding agreement...

Back in the 1990s Amtrak studied ending electrified service west of the SEPTA commuter zone and removing
the catenary wire west of Thorndale or Parkesburg running service westward to LNC and HAR with diesels...

During the 1990s Amtrak began to run diesel service almost exclusively to Lancaster and Harrisburg with only
one AEM7-hauled round trip per week on average using the electric catenary to keep minimal usage...

Schedules were lengthened from an average of 1 hour 45 minutes using MU cars to 2 hours 30 minutes running
with diesels HAR-PHL. As a result there was a ridership loss on this time-sensitive route with service cuts.

There was also talk about SEPTA taking over the Harrisburg route from Amtrak along with PennDot ownership.
This would have required a dedicated fleet of MU and/or P-P cars some of which would be lavatory-equipped
(some Silverliner Two and Three MU cars had lavatories removed during their 1980s overhauls) in service.
The only Amtrak trains from PHL would have been those operating to/from points west of Harrisburg in this plan.

There was a plan put forward during the 1990s for a new station in Lancaster County at LEAMAN PLACE...
This never got past the planning stage due to disputes on funding the cost of this new facility as example...

In the late 1990s into the early 2000s Amtrak and PennDot made an agreement to keep electrified service
on the 104 mile route along with track and infrastructure improvements and dedicated equipment.
This is the Amtrak Keystone along with SEPTA Thorndale Services that we all know today...MACTRAXX