• NYSW: Conrails missing link

  • For topics on Class I and II passenger and freight operations more general in nature and not specifically related to a specific railroad with its own forum.
For topics on Class I and II passenger and freight operations more general in nature and not specifically related to a specific railroad with its own forum.

Moderator: Jeff Smith

  by TrainTrackToby
Much shorter route for csx to get to the midwest from noth bergen and new way to get to croxton so its no longer a one way intermodal terminal.
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  by NHV 669
"Shorter" in terms of overall mileage? Maybe... Definitely not the fast way for CSXT, when they already have a line good for 40-50 mph just about everywhere in NYS. Why even bother adding the Utica line? It's not even fully used by NYSW, and is nowhere near capable of handling dozens of mainline road freights, nor at a useful speed, especially given the necessary street running.

There's no need for a second, parallel NS line, they don't route anything that way...

This idea is neither efficient, nor useful for either road involved.
  by TrainTrackToby
Thats the point its under used so it has enough capacity to bring some traffic off the congested river line
And utica and be a alternative route to get into selkirk
  by NHV 669
You're confusing capacity with capability.... CSX is not going to pay another railroad to move their cars when they can do it themselves over faster track.

A branch line with street running is not an "alternative route" for 10,000+ foot road trains, especially when it travels the wrong direction from Selkirk and connects to a completely different railroad.
  by TrainTrackToby
Csx already owns a percent of nysw
Streetrunning for 10,000 foot trains had been done on csx example: lagrange
And the utica branch connects with csx in a eastward derication

Remeber intermodals ran on these rails no to long ago
  by RandallW
What are the horsepower per tonnage requirements on the two routes? I'm under the impression the current CSX routing is "water level" with low HP per ton requirement, while using the NYSW would require significantly more power for the same tonnage.

And what do you mean Croxton is "one way"?
  by TrainTrackToby
Intermodals only exit south and enter north

Both routes have there steep and flat section
  by NHV 669
And yet, they're not moving any CSXT trains over it as is, that should tell you plenty. LaGrange is a Class I mainline between two major cities, not a branchline on a short line operator held captive on both ends by the two roads that own it. The direction it connects in is irrelevant, because it's going the wrong way no matter which direction you head in, and the line frequently washes out. NYSW is literally not running regular traffic the length of the line.

As for the main south out of Syracuse, anything that works DeWitt Yard won't go that way, as that connection bypasses the yard, and that's probably a good number of trains.

The IMs down the main were detours, notice they don't run anything else that way. The trend over time has been traffic leaving the line, not increasing.
  by TrainTrackToby
CSXT hasnt relaized the ponteail.
Lagrange only get 7 trains per day
Nysw doesn't know what there doing as they are losing so much traffic
Trains can run into Dewitt via the connecting track at the wye
Nysw had ran itermodals in the passed im not talking about the detours
  by RandallW
NS services out of Croxton are to Chicago, St Louis, Kansas City, Dallas, Memphis, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Charlotte, and Greensboro. I don't see the value in those services heading north.
  by NHV 669
You're suggesting they relieve congestion by holding up traffic with a backhaul east, then having to swap ends to continue west? That literally defeats the purpose of routing that way...

They ran IM as a bridge route, but now post-Conrail, CSX can run the same trains as a single haul themselves and offer a single rate. Why needlessly pass on extra interchange cost to the end customer, even if they own the road involved?

And as RandallW points out, there is zero reason for NS to go that way, when they have a more direct route west that happens not to be a super busy line.
  by TrainTrackToby
THis could help for a route alternate route for chicago or a manifest between binghampetn and croxton and also can support throu traffic
From the junction with nysw to dewitt it is 3 to 4 tracks so I woulnt think congestion would be a problem
Im saying csao should buy nysw so there woulnt be extra interchange cost
The lehigh line out of croxton is pretty congested and busy 25 trains per day single track and funnily enough theres a derailemnt on it right now
Last edited by TrainTrackToby on Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  by NHV 669
If you wanted a slower, circuitous route to Chicago? Sure...

NS doesn't run any mixed freight to Binghamton from Croxton; it all goes to Enola/Allentown. They're not going to run Midwest/Chicago traffic all the way up to Buffalo, when they can send it directly west already.

It doesn't matter if there are 15 tracks at the junction, CSXT isn't going to bypass their own route just to change direction, backhaul, then change direction again to continue west. Especially not with priority IM traffic. They DEFINITELY are not going to shove an intermodal train 6+ miles back to a yard... that's a complete non-starter.

No such transaction is going to occur, when both companies are owned by the same two RRs, that's just overly redundant.

They've already sent several detour trains through to Croxton, and they went over the Trenton Sub.
  by TrainTrackToby
Ns route via buffalo wouldn't be that much longer of a distance and it is direct as it goes north than west and souther teir and lake erie sub are pretty underused
They will just wye the power as yard crews switch the train woulnt take to long
Csao could just buy the nysw as both ns and csx both have alot of shares in the company and ns and csx are there only class 1 interchange partner so...
  by jdh823
I shouldn't even entertain the thought of all this but can't resist.

Southern tier isn't underused. It's properly used. It's super redundant, and so much slower. Notice how it took the detours almost a day between Binghamton and north jersey? That alone makes this a nonstarter

You really don't understand how the class 1s operate.