NY TIMES EXPOSES THE SECRET MINUTE!

Now there's a surprise! In 20-plus years of commuting and another 15 years railfanning, this does not come as a surprise. Good article. Focuses primarily on Grand Central and NY Penn, but much of this applies to Hoboken as well. There has always been a short grace period. But not guaranteed!

The Secret New York Minute: Trains Late by Design

For a commuter rushing to catch a train, a minute can mean the difference between dinner with the family and leftovers in the microwave. What most passengers do not realize is that their minute is already there...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/nyreg ... ml?_r=1&hp

Now how about an article about how arrival times at terminals are padded, some by as much as 15 minutes, just to keep the "on time" status of a train which has fallen behind. This is very important to keep in mind when transfering at Trenton to the light rail, because it does NOT take 16 minutes to go from Hamilton to Trenton - more like 7 minutes, and the schedules would have you believe that you have no chance of making that next RiverLINE train, when it's usually a perfect connection in real life.

BTW, the current NJT employee schedule does NOT do the 1 minute thing (marked as LV on the schedule = Receive and discharge passengers. Departs at the time listed in this schedule. NOTE: The public timetable shows the departure time one minute earlier, but crews must use the time listed in this employee schedule for their departure) at Hoboken. Only at NY Penn.

NY Times or not... People will still miss their trains. Once leaving time hits, those doors are closed.

sullivan1985 wrote:NY Times or not... People will still miss their trains. Once leaving time hits, those doors are closed.

Boy do I love the looks from people on the platform who miss their train. Not my fault you just HAD to go to starbucks...

Publicizing this one minute, will only make commuter miss their train even more.
This grace minute is so conductor has option to hold the doors for a person
running down ramp, or still walking along the train to find a seat.
Commuters should not forget the train leaves on railroad time, (conductors
watch) not on time it says on the commuters cellphone.

check your cellphone and see how wrong it is :
http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java
this discepancy of public time vs employee time is been in existence since NYC
days.

Metrolink, Los Angeles area, has a buffer for being on time. If the train is within five minutes of published schedule time, it is on time. That means it could also be early.

The 5 minute and 59 second on time rule, is in effect on ALL APTA member commuter railroads in USA.
its an APTA standard.

checkthedoorlight wrote:
BTW, the current NJT employee schedule does NOT do the 1 minute thing (marked as LV on the schedule = Receive and discharge passengers. Departs at the time listed in this schedule. NOTE: The public timetable shows the departure time one minute earlier, but crews must use the time listed in this employee schedule for their departure) at Hoboken. Only at NY Penn.

Huh?

The ETT (employee TT) time is the departure time of the train, and the passenger schedules are one minute EARLIER. You said that, but then you said that "it does not do the 1 minute thing" - that is the one minute thing.........

am i missing something?

DutchRailnut wrote: check your cellphone and see how wrong it is :
http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java
this discepancy of public time vs employee time is been in existence since NYC
days.

Actually my phone and that site are synchronized, to within less than a second. Looks like Sprint is capable of doing one thing well!

Jtgshu wrote:
Huh?

The ETT (employee TT) time is the departure time of the train, and the passenger schedules are one minute EARLIER. You said that, but then you said that "it does not do the 1 minute thing" - that is the one minute thing.........

am i missing something?

Compare the public and employee schedules for the Hoboken departures. The times match, and the employee schedule is marked as an S, not an LV. The NYP departures are one minute later on the employee schedule than the public schedule, and are marked as LV.

Hoboken = leaves when the public schedule says
NYP = leaves 1 minute later than the public schedule says (at crew's discretion)

checkthedoorlight wrote: This is very important to keep in mind when transfering at Trenton to the light rail, because it does NOT take 16 minutes to go from Hamilton to Trenton - more like 7 minutes, and the schedules would have you believe that you have no chance of making that next RiverLINE train, when it's usually a perfect connection in real life.

Don't rely on taking advantage of these unadvertised paddings. You say it's USUALLY perfect, and I guess that's true. Although it does not HAVE to take 16 minuts Hamilton to Trenton, it CAN sometimes take that long, and every time I've ridden it's certainly seemed to take that long.

The railroad can decide anytime to do away with them without telling us, since they never told passengers they existed in the first place.

And any occasion where a crew waits a little bit for a straggler also means all the other passengers on the train have to wait. So it's not necessarily a good thing.
How do you guys feel about trains that leave at advertised time only to stop shortly afterwards waiting for a signal?

The big difference between Hoboken and NYP is that in Hoboken, there are still gatemen with real gates. Once those gates are closed, nobody else gets in so there are no stragglers, and the conductors can leave without closing the doors in somebody's face.

In NYP, the escalators can keep feeding potential passengers onto the platform, leaving the conductors in the unenviable position of having to close the doors while people are running for a train they can literally touch. Then the conductor is left looking like the bad guy for closing the doors.

checkthedoorlight wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote: check your cellphone and see how wrong it is :
http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java
this discepancy of public time vs employee time is been in existence since NYC
days.

Actually my phone and that site are synchronized, to within less than a second. Looks like Sprint is capable of doing one thing well!

Jtgshu wrote:
Huh?

The ETT (employee TT) time is the departure time of the train, and the passenger schedules are one minute EARLIER. You said that, but then you said that "it does not do the 1 minute thing" - that is the one minute thing.........

am i missing something?

Compare the public and employee schedules for the Hoboken departures. The times match, and the employee schedule is marked as an S, not an LV. The NYP departures are one minute later on the employee schedule than the public schedule, and are marked as LV.

Hoboken = leaves when the public schedule says
NYP = leaves 1 minute later than the public schedule says (at crew's discretion)

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I see whatcha mean

Thats probably because Hoboken has a guy at the gate and closes the gate at leaving time so they can actually leave on time. Much less of a chance of stragglers when the gate is closed!! (not that that doesn't happen though.....)

Jtgshu wrote: Much less of a chance of stragglers when the gate is closed!! (not that that doesn't happen though.....)

I once watched one of those lovely people smash into the closed gate, knock the station master over and then run for the train as it left for the station. No regard for the man he very well could have given a concussion. Needless to say, he found another way home that night.

DutchRailnut wrote: check your cellphone and see how wrong it is :
http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java
this discepancy of public time vs employee time is been in existence since NYC
days.

And my phone is within a second of the site, which is within 1.3 seconds of the official time.
I like that Hoboken has the gates, it's an old timey feel somehow.

This thread made me think of something I read in one of the overseas railway timetables I have. Below is an exact quote from a UK railway franchise's public timetable.

Train Doors Closing Before Departure
In the interests of safety and punctuality, train doors may be closed up to 30 seconds before scheduled departure time of the train. When the doors are about to close you will hear an audible alarm. Once this alarm is heard, or you see the doors closing, do not attempt to board or leave the train.