NJT MLV EMU Procurement

I, too, have the DE/DM30 manual and can vouch:

DE30AC w/ 3000gals fuel (400-403): 296,878 lbs.
DE30AC w/ 3000gals fuel (404-422): 291,735 lbs.
DM30AC w/ 2400gals fuel: 299,844 lbs.

Are there any renderings whatsoever about what these power cars might look like, or probable design specs out there from BBD or other manufacturers with interest in bidding on these?

No, trust me i've looked, though one member here did modify a photo of MLV consist adding pantos etc.

I really don't think NJT wants to go 100% push-pull. Would mean an increase in and longer x moves for sure. With the arrows you can have all most an entire 12 car train closed, with some of the cars going to MMC for work or whanot. Coaches tend to need a locomotive to do that...

Technically, all of NJT's trains are push-pulls.

Has this been shared? I can't remember if it has; but there's a lot about the MLV EMU idea and the rational behind it here; also a lot of other technical information that may be of interest about the other equipment in the fleet:
http://www.njtransit.com/AdminTemp/njt_ ... et2014.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was looking at the videos of the NJT board meetings for Sept. and Oct. 2014 and noticed discussion of multilevel EMUs. I wonder what's happening?

philipmartin wrote:I was looking at the video covered NJT board meetings for Sept. and Oct. 2014 and noticed discussion of multilevel EMUs. I wonder what's happening?

LTK Engineering has that contract, and it's for finalizing the vehicle specs so they can issue the Request For Proposals as next step in the process. Neither the specs engineering nor RFP indicate any binding commitment to make an actual vehicle purchase, but they're the necessary steps for getting their internal house in order on what they want their next EMU's to be and for surveying what product potential bidders are going to offer up based on those specs.

LTK should be far enough along with the work by now that they deliver the full specs package first-half 2016 and--if NJT likes what it sees in that documentation--RFP gets issued second-half 2016. If they do it like most transit agencies the RFP docs would be published for public consumption and give us a good hundred pages of so of hyper-detailed specs sheets to devour and debate.

Thank you for the worthwhile information, F-line.

Has there been any recent update regarding the multilevel EMU procurement?

Thanks

Would not be surprised if this was "backburnered",due to other problems and lack of funds.

how funny this thread just got revived. i took the dinky earlier today and was surprised to find it running as a two-car train, with the second car closed off.

Why surprised? It's been running like that for almost a decade now.

Why is the second car closed off?

russellsal8 wrote:Has there been any recent update regarding the multilevel EMU procurement?

Thanks

As long as the agency is in such turmoil they can't even staff the procurement positions that would digest the technical specs delivered by their subcontractor, you're not going to see any action on this for the time being. Can't exactly borrow a room full of monkeys with typewriters to bang out the RFP, even if it's sure to be another grooved fastball that's Bombardier's to lose. They probably need to get the MLV3 coach order cued up first to replace the Comet II's as most urgent order or business, since those can arrive on the property and provide capacity/reliability relief much faster than the Arrow replacements that have to go through first-generation design and testing at 5+ year gestation period that's the new 'normal' for 21st c. procurements. But once they get un-stuck enough to mass-order more coaches it'll at least be a reliable leading indicator that the procurement dept. is staffed-up well enough to take some paper action at issuing this RFP. So watch for any tangible signs of institutional un-stuckness first before making any bets on timetable for this specific order.

jackintosh11 wrote:Yes, but the Arrows are substantially older.

It's nowhere near as simplistic as age of existing equipment. It's bread-and-butter procurement dynamics for third-generation trailers vs. first-generation self-powered equipment. They're drawing up first-time specs for the MLV EMU, so the gestation period is going to be years longer even if they issued the RFP tomorrow. Design, testing, debugging of a pilot car, and very slow rollout of the initial cars before kinks are pounded out and pace of delivery cranks up. Look how long standard delivery times are nowadays for all manner of 21st-century computer-heavy equipment that has to go through some degree of first-time shakedown tests (e.g. Tier 3/4 locomotives, upgraded-design cab cars, new-design Amtrak baggage/dining cars). You wouldn't get first pilot EMU on the property before 2020, full order fulfillment before 2022. The MLV coach assembly line is still going on the MARC order, has enough common components with multiple ongoing 8-inch boarding BLV coach orders to have MLV assembly rapidly restarted if the production line goes idle, and has multiple other agencies--SEPTA, MNRR/LIRR, AMT--similarly on procurement schedules for MLV-spec cars that'll bid out in the next 5 years. Obviously with Bombardier an odds-on favorite for any of those orders since they're the progenitor of the design and anybody else underbidding them would have extra reverse-engineering overhead and testing for producing an MLV alternative. NJT can get Comet II replacements rolling into service in as little as 2 years. EMU's are fixed at absolutely no sooner than 5 years...longer at the rate they're going on the paperwork and project mgt. internal staffing.

Since their procurement needs are deep and well behind-schedule...not to mention originally scheduled to juggle multiple orders at a time in their official fleet plan before everything started slipping off-schedule...they won't be single-tasking orders one step at a time. They don't have a choice to begin with; they have to learn to walk and chew gum at the same time to keep state-of-repair woes from completely imploding the whole system. And the wildly different manufacturing schedules differentiated by all the first-gen testing these EMU's have to go through means that a double-barreling RFP's would get the coach order more or less completed before the BBD assembly line turns its attention to the main thrust of the EMU order. So it ends up timing better to place a mass order in quick succession, because any which way the coaches are going to have half the gestation period and be completely done with shakedown tests, full deployment, and Comet II dispersal before the more challenging EMU pilot tests commence and start chewing up yard/staff bandwidth.