Niantic Station proposal

I definitely concur with you that it's not as much an environmental issue as most wetlands and beaches are. The section of "beach" has been wrecked and rebuilt several times in the last decade; it's just a pile of rough stone these days. I can't imagine the town being anything but happy if the state dumps another 50 feet of boulders in the water, gives them a shiny new station, and makes an actual walkable beach area in front.

A lot of the reasoning against filling in wetlands has to do with the fact that the wetland ecosystems are in pretty poor condition, which is especially true in New England where there's been longer to destroy it, as well as large-scale draining of wetlands to kill of mosquito populations. There's also a big difference between filling in land on the edge of a marsh, and cutting straight through it; there's also a big difference between a filled embankment or bridging across. But I digress.

Roadgeek Adam wrote:Pardon my ignorance as a not-CT resident, but wouldn't Groton be equal to about East Haven in the fact that it's close to the city nearby? I know both New Haven stations and New London station have little parking (I've done it for all three), but it seems like both Groton and East Haven would need to serve as park & rides to be even useful.

Niantic and Old Lyme are probably both destinations on the shore to themselves, and why couldn't SLE try to serve both? It's understandable if ConnDOT cannot afford both Niantic and Old Lyme, but neither downtown is exactly close by or in walking distance.

As for any potential service to Westerly, would Noank have any attraction or just Stonington, Mystic, Groton and Westerly? Same question could be applied to Groton, other than the Navy base and sub museum, is there anything for reverse commutation? (Mystic and Westerly would serve as a nice connector to Foxwoods up CT 2.)

As addressed before, Groton definitely has its own draw, not as a feeder; the Thames river is really wide, so besides from the Goldstar Memorial Bridge between NL and Groton, the next crossing is about 11 (road) miles to the north. It's pretty hard to get over the bridge unless you go by your own vehicle, enough so that Electric Boat runs its own busses to shuttle employees back and forth. I tried for a while to try and take SLE in to school, and between the limited SLE schedules forcing me to be there from 7AM to 6PM, it took an hour each way to take the SEAT busses down to Avery Point and back.

For Noank, I have a hard time imagining residents there would allow it to happen, as a lot of the coastal area of the village is pretty rich and doesn't like the outside world; in the Groton Long Point area (which isn't part of Noank, but is only accessible by going through Noank,) is a privately-owned quasi-gated community that is vehemently opposed to anyone but them being near them. There's a trail from Bluff Point State Park that runs along the fence of the NEC RoW (which is a great place to watch trains, if you don't mind the fence), as well as the G&S trolley trail on the opposing side of the NEC, that meet together and end over near one of these communities, which they are irate about; they complain about litter (which there really isn't) and the noise generated from people going on the trail. Can't imagine they would be too happy with new construction near them, either. I do see where you're probably looking at, though, at that giant parking lot in front of the beach there.


Anyways, Rocky Neck State Park is something that's going to be pretty pivotal for deciding on Niantic and Old Lyme. It's easily the biggest attraction in the area, and definitely one of the most popular State Parks. But putting it out that way also puts it away from any commercial centers, and a lot of the population.

Taking I-95's infrastructure status in the area is something that should be included in any analysis of this, as well; the section between the sections between the Baldwin Bridge (spanning the Connecticut) and the Goldstar Bridge (spanning the Thames) is very prone to congestion. It's very hilly through the area (that's why the NEC is literally on the coast through here), so trucks go pretty slow up hills and are a regular source of traffic. More relevant to station planning is the two exit clusters. The smaller one is exits 71 and 72 near Rocky Neck State Park, where 72 was made for a connecting highway to Rocky Neck. The close spacing between the two means that entrance ramps for one are conjoined with the other's exit ramps, which slows traffic down significantly. Any station in proximity to Rocky Neck would have to deal with this. Fixing that is on the long-term plan for the state, but who knows when that'll happen. The other cluster is where i-395 begins and ends, which also has 4 exits in a few mile radius, with most of them having short exit ramps. It's a complex interchange, and chokes up badly whenever it's commuter hours; all of the off-exits are the exits primarily used to get to both the Flanders and Niantic sections of East Lyme. The commuter rail station in Niantic proper would certainly help get some of these people off the road, but it could also bring more through here in their place. CT Route 11 was originally supposed to terminate at this interchange, but that's another one of the state's road plans that just never came to be fully fruitful... but locally and regionally the completion of the last 8 miles of the project is still dearly wanted as a freeway alternative to CT 85, so it's not unreasonable to rule out any influence that could have.

The biggest problem overall is just Amtrak. Some of it is them being stubborn, but there is obviously a real capacity issue because of the movable bridges. That capacity issue won't be solved until Amtrak gets its coveted inland route, which is two decades off if things go optimally. Fixing up the CT River Bridge is just a bandaid for the capacity problem, as it will only help to squeeze out a bit more time on the timetable; and with demand for rail transportation rising, Amtrak is undoubtedly going to continue to try and keep as much of the time as possible on what they own for themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if Amtrak uses that as a way to leverage even more support for the inland route.

I did read the thread, but if I repeat anything apologies.

Niantic would be a great add; no existing Amtrak station. When I look at SLE and adding stations, I also see the potential for eliminating Amtrak intermediate stations (one of the big benefits of NHHS service is speeding up Springfield/Inland service). Get the situation around here sorted out, and you can dump Old Saybrook as an Amtrak stop. At least the Niantic River bridge has been replaced.

It's not necessary here though. Niantic could definitely use a station. I used to go to Camp Niantic for some reserve schools. Very scenic.

Old Saybrook is definitely a good Northeast Regional stop; it shouldn't become SLE-only. It pulls about 160 Amtrak riders a day, many of them headed for New York, and that number is higher during the summer season as there's a lot of New Yorkers headed for the Long Island Sound beaches.

Yeah, OSB is definately a worthwhile Amtrak station. I don't think stopping is as much as a hit of time as it could be, anyways, because of the speed restrictions over the Old Lyme Draw.

Something else I had thought about recently with regards to a station in Niantic is hurricane stability. The railway RoW since its inception has had a tendency to be partially reclaimed by the sea whenever any serious hurricane hits. The standard SLE station with two side platforms and a elevator would likely be a really bad idea to build, as the ocean-facing side has a good probability of being disturbed if not flat-out washed away; the elevator/pedestrian overpass towers would also catch a lot of wind. If they're going to do side platforms, a pedestrian overpass just isn't a long-term solution.

The EGE wrote:Old Saybrook is definitely a good Northeast Regional stop; it shouldn't become SLE-only. It pulls about 160 Amtrak riders a day, many of them headed for New York, and that number is higher during the summer season as there's a lot of New Yorkers headed for the Long Island Sound beaches.

Don't forget Bostonians!

It also works as a great transfer stop between Amtrak and SLE and more so compared to New London given the different service levels @ both stations.

Yama, you raise an interesting point about hurricane concerns. Though out of curiosity to what extent was the damage (if any) to the ROW through that part of Niantic from Irene and Sandy? I know East Haven and other parts of the Shore Line got hit HARD the first time.

I'm not sure how much actual track damage occurred, but the embankment was eroded away significantly in both storms. Something else I had learned of recently was that there was a interlocking tower in Niantic previously; it was on the shore side of the tracks, and got washed out to sea in the 1934 hurricane season; that knowledge is what prompted me into thinking about this.

when was the last time the tracks were damaged from storm. it seems like years maybe in 1934

Since the title of the bill doesn't even have SHORE LINE EAST spelled correctly,
one wonders how many other stupid errors are lunking in the proposal.

Lee

Instead of, or in addition to a station in Niantic, Rocky Neck State Park would be an ideal site for a Shore Line East station.
There's plenty of parking for weekday commuters, when the beach parking is not that crowded, and on weekends, the station
would be able to receive crowds from other cities and towns, who won't be using the crowded weekend parking. In fact, probably
many of those who now drive will be coming by train instead.

Lee

kitn1mcc wrote:when was the last time the tracks were damaged from storm. it seems like years maybe in 1934

The 1938 hurricane took out something like 15 miles of track in this general area. I'd be surprised if some subsequent storms haven't done some damage. The track is really right on the beach.

1938 was many years ago. why do you think they built millstone were it is

Ridgefielder wrote:

kitn1mcc wrote:when was the last time the tracks were damaged from storm. it seems like years maybe in 1934

The 1938 hurricane took out something like 15 miles of track in this general area. I'd be surprised if some subsequent storms haven't done some damage. The track is really right on the beach.

Long Island Sound protects CT very well from hurricane storm surge. 50-year storms are still gonna be 50-year storms, but I don't think this is quite as much a concern on the CT shoreline as it is...say, on the NJ shoreline or NYC. The only Shoreline tracks that are at-risk are the ones that are 10 feet from the beach with very little in the way of embankment keeping them high-and-dry. Niantic certainly qualifies. I doubt, however, that 48-inch high platforms are at that much risk for being inundated with water and affecting station facilities. Niantic's not exactly an SLE stop that begs for a huge facility; small and functional does the job just fine for that infill's demand. Where they might have to take some extra precautions storm-proofing it is just the salt spray off the water, which is much more a wintertime hazard. Might have to wall off the outside of the NB/ocean-facing platform and add a little extra in the way of overhang coverage for creature comforts, because that wind and spray will be absolutely brutal in winter. Moreso than any other SLE station, since they don't have the space or demand for a waiting room here like the shared Amtrak stops.