New York Pennsylvania (Penn) Station - History, Remnants, etc.

strench707 wrote:Okay so its on the downgrade so it would be west of the bottom of the hill. How far away from the point where it curves back up again is it?

Thanks

Davis

CP MID is just west (about 100 yards or so) of the bottom of the grade in the North River Tubes.

amtrakhogger wrote:

strench707 wrote:Okay so its on the downgrade so it would be west of the bottom of the hill. How far away from the point where it curves back up again is it?

Thanks

Davis

CP MID is just west (about 100 yards or so) of the bottom of the grade in the North River Tubes.

Okay thanks for the clarification!

Davis

For strench707: I just came across a track and signal diagram of Manhattan Transfer on page 163 of Triumph 5 depicting the layout from 1910 to 1928, showing color-light signals in the platform area and semaphores in the rest of the plant. I wonder whether this was the first use of color-light signals on the PRR outside Penn Station and associated tunnels.

Regarding Mr. ExCon's post,I'm wondering if the color-light signals in question might have governed movements on Hudson and Manhattan (nee PATH) trackage; the H&M and PRR lines merged for a short distance in the area of the former Manhattan Transfer and Harrison staions. This pattern was simplified some time between 1978 and 1995, with the PATH movemnts now crossing at grade in what amounted to an "automatic interlocking", since no operation of home or fixed signals on the part of PRR/PC/CR/Amtrak operators was necessary.

I don't have the book in front of me now, but I recall seeing color-light signals governing both main tracks at both island platforms, and the track layout allowed both tracks in each direction to be used by PRR trains; the entering signals were semaphores. Incidentally, the diagram shows a gantlet track on one each of the eastbound and westbound tracks, the outer one in each case. Presumably this was because the H&M cars were narrower, but the gantlets were news to me -- I don't recall seeing any photos showing them (not that I've seen that many photos of Manhattan Transfer).

2nd trick op wrote:I'm wondering if the color-light signals in question might have governed movements on Hudson and Manhattan

The diagram shows the gantlets on the tracks on the outer sides of the two platforms; the "light signals" are on the inner-side tracks.

I would think there must have been canopies over the platforms (I'll see if I can find any photos on Wednesday); in that case, the clearances for semaphore arms might have been limited on the center tracks, and the canopies might have thrown enough shadows that color-light signals would have been readable even in daylight. Anybody know of any other reason? Also, the interlocking on the H&M at Park Place was all semaphore.

I worked JO, (and C and KN,) in 1957. We had a lever that controlled a westbound signal at the east end of line 2. We used it to hold New Haven trains until they had a clear shot into the station.
We used a DD1 to pull the wire train around the station in those days.

ExCon90 wrote:I would think there must have been canopies over the platforms

When the station opened, the West end of platforms were outside in the deep cut, as was A Tower.

Clearfield wrote:

ExCon90 wrote:I would think there must have been canopies over the platforms

When the station opened, the West end of platforms were outside in the deep cut, as was A Tower.

I was talking about Manhattan Transfer in that particular post.

The FL-9's had double sided contact shoes, a few only had bottom contact & stayed with MNRR till last year when they were retired. Tracks 1-4, which dead end into the station & have no connection eastward, have no 3rd rail, the rest of the tracks do. Only the westbound tunnel to NJ still has 3rd rail, but it is normally not powered.

The 3rd rail used by DD1 locos was 600 volt DC i believe. H&M shared tracks ONLY at manhattan transfer, after that the through trains to exchange place terminal ran on an adjacent ROW. After 20 something years in operation, manhattan transfer was closed and the entire yard and interlocking were re-arranged.

- A

According to track diagrams of Manhattan Transfer and Journal Square as revised to 1928, both main line trains to Jersey City and H&M trains shared two tracks (equipped with third rail -- and which received AC catenary, when its time came) from the east end of Manhattan Transfer to just west of Journal Square, at which point the main line tracks diverged to the outside, passing north and south of the H&M tracks and platforms at Journal Square, where Jersey City trains did not stop. At the point of divergence, the third rail stayed with the H&M tracks on the inside, and the two outside tracks are designated "eastward steam" and "westward steam," respectively.

Does anyone have any pictures of what these color signals look like in and around NYP? I would really like to see some pics and if someone could explain what indications they can now display that'd be awesome!

Davis

SAVED NY PENNSYLVANIA STATION TRACK INDICATOR

There is on (outside display) at the Whippany Railway Museum in Whippany NJ one of the origional Track Indicators !
This indicator once stood about 15' tall but scrappers torches cut it down to about 7'

This was saved by former Morris County Central Railroad employees who went to a NJ landfill in the 60's during demolition to save this artifact.

You can view a photo at the museums web site under the "Exhibit" tab........ http://www.whippanyrailwaymuseum.net scroll down about 2/3 of the page.

A friend of my family shot some home movies of the place being torn down, from his office window.

See them here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evD1NXa-Urw

(More train videos on this playlist:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p ... D768B4093D