New SEPTA Stations

there's always talk of new lines or route expansions, but what about stations on the existing line, either former or new, that SEPTA could implement? I'd think that a new station would be a feasible addition without much in the way of new funds and I think they'd probably reduce the operating loss rather than increase it. I suppose the flip side is, are there stations that exist now that maybe aren't necessary?
for new stops, I'd say that 9th and girard is my tops for restoration followed by 52nd and Lancaster. Girard would serve the growing northern liberties area and potentially a waterfront trolley. 52nd would be mainly to serve the mann, west fairmount, and help redevelop parkside in a manner befitting a big city.
I always felt that when the new Paoli Transportation Center is build in 2125, they could eliminate Daylesford and sell off the land.

The place I've always thought is missing a station is Morrisville.

Ever notice how Morrisville, although in Bucks County, PA, faces away from Philadelphia and towards Trenton, and by extension, Northern New Jersey and New York?

Before I started working in Mercer County, NJ, in twenty-oh-two, I think I met one person who lived in Morrisville. Now I know a whole bunch.

I think one of the longest runs between stations in a non-express setting has got to be between Levittown and Trenton. This would break that up. Of course, folks taking that train who want to make their NJT connection in Trenton probably appreciate that long stretch with no station-stop-related reason to slow down.

rslitman I see you're careful with your wording. You seem to be aware of the concept that locals stop at every station and expresses stop between every station.

I also wondered why there's no stop in Morrisville, and that thru passengers beyond Trenton probably appreciate that there's no stop.

does anybody know track distance? mapquest, highway, not railroad, says
Claymont-Wilmington 8.24 miles. I'm guessing Wilmington-Churchman's crossing - Newark are longer
Levittown-Trenton 7.83 miles
but there's not as much reason for the train to stop in the swamp between Claymont and Wilmington as there is at Morrisville

Wasn't there a proposal a few years back for NJT to build a station in Morrisville on their yard lead to take the pressure off Trenton for serving Pennsylvania commuters to NYC? Whatever happened to that?

I didn't want to open another can of worms, and since this thread says SEPTA stations and this forum's SEPTA, I'm relieved I can blame it on someone else. I don't know how serious the proposal was for a station at or near NJT's Morrisville yard, but I think it's a sin that they don't have one. So far nothing has come of it, trains run from Morrisville yard to Trenton, but don't carry any passengers.
One farfetched excuse I've heard is that Trenton parking garages would lose revenue. My solution, determine the amount of subsidy per automobile the garages, toll bridge, whoever else claims they'd lose if there was a station need to be made whole, add a surcharge to Morrisville tickets to cover that amount and give it to the allegedly injured parties.

Wasn't there already a big political fight over Morrisville yard going on the Penn side of the river? I'd imagine a station would have only complicated that.

gardendance wrote:rslitman I see you're careful with your wording. You seem to be aware of the concept that locals stop at every station and expresses stop between every station.

I also wondered why there's no stop in Morrisville, and that thru passengers beyond Trenton probably appreciate that there's no stop.

does anybody know track distance? mapquest, highway, not railroad, says
Claymont-Wilmington 8.24 miles. I'm guessing Wilmington-Churchman's crossing - Newark are longer
Levittown-Trenton 7.83 miles
but there's not as much reason for the train to stop in the swamp between Claymont and Wilmington as there is at Morrisville

Addressing the second item first, I forgot about the Delaware distances, probably for three reasons:

1. I haven't ridden to and from Wilmington much, and every trip I have taken, the most recent being on January 12, 2008, has been a joy ride. I've never ridden to and from Newark, but maybe I will one day. On the other hand, I have ridden to and from Trenton from various Bucks County and Northeast Philadelphia stations many times. Some have been joy rides but others have been part of trips to New York. Incidentally, every time I've taken the NJT Northeast Corridor line, with one exception, my trip has begun or ended on an R7 train and ended or begun at Penn Station. That one exception was actually the most recent trip, an overnighter on August 15-16, 2008, when I had to go straight from work and thus drove to Hamilton and caught the NJT train there. I've never gotten off at one of the intermediate stations, although future joy ride plans include going to Newark Airport, riding PATH trains, and transferring to other NJT lines. And with all of those R7 trips into Trenton to make connections, I have been aware that once we've passed Levittown, although there are about 12 minutes to go until we arrive at Trenton, at least the trains won't have to slow down for any other stations.

2. The Wilmington service was added after I first moved to the area, and sometimes my mind is stuck in Regional Rail as it was in 1986, with service to West Chester and Ivy Ridge, Newtown service about to start up again any moment, and no service past Downingtown or Marcus Hook. And stops at such stations as (my spelling may be off) Felwick, Fulmor, Tioga, Nicetown, Logan, Tabor, and a Fern Rock Station that's not next to the Broad Street Line Station with the same name.

3. The service to Delaware is part-time. Nothing on Sunday, not much to Wilmington on Saturday (with a huge mid-day gap that has stymied my joyriding plans more than once), and no off-peak or weekend service to Newark at all. On the other hand, the service to Trenton is full-time, with all trains in both directions scheduled to run on the stretch between there and Levittown. Because of its full-time status, I tend to think of it more as a SEPTA destination than Delaware.

As for the first item, I was going to say something, but I took so long to write my comments on the second item, that I've forgotten what I was going to say! But here's one more thing - During the hours that I tend to ride the R7, the Eddington stop is a flag stop on alternate trains and is skipped on the others. Despite my supposed hurry to get to Trenton, I don't notice this as much going to Trenton. I've just gotten on at Cornwells Heights and am still settling in, so I hardly notice it. But coming back, this affects me in the following ways:

1. Trains with the flag stop are scheduled to leave Trenton a minute earlier than the others. Sometimes that minute can mean all the time in the world to making the connection from the NJT train.

2. I fear that I may expect the next stop after Croydon to be Cornwells Heights because most of the time, I'm either on a train that didn't have the Eddington stop or didn't have to stop for a flag stop there. Then one day, the train will stop at Eddington, I'll get off by mistake, and then I'll be stuck there for two hours until the next train.

Is there any special reason for the Eddington stop to exist? If it's to serve employees at employers located there, perhaps it should be confined to service only when people would be commuting there. Or maybe that's why it's a flag stop at other times.

Couple comments on other stations:

- 52nd & Lancaster: What other transit options are available there? It'll be expensive to rebuild this station, though it might be worth if it the Schuylkill Valley Metro were to ever happen, as this might better support reverse commuters.
- Daylesford: Unlikely to go away. The parking was recently expanded and the platforms upgraded, there are plenty that walk there, and there are R5 stations closer together than Berwyn-Daylesford-Paoli are, and the new Paoli Transportation Center will actually be farther away from Daylesford than the current Paoli station is now. If anything, Daylesford may lose its status as a (slight) reliever of Paoli for R5 commuters that drive to the train, but I doubt expanding Paoli will significantly drop Daylesford's patronage. Barring some big change, I can't really see the closure of any R5 stations being in the cards.
- "Edgemoor/Fox Point/Merchant's Square" R2 station - There's been talk of adding a stop in the area of I-495 and Delaware Route 3. This was a point of discussion a while back in this thread.

khecht wrote: Couple comments on other stations:

- 52nd & Lancaster: What other transit options are available there? It'll be expensive to rebuild this station, though it might be worth if it the Schuylkill Valley Metro were to ever happen, as this might better support reverse commuters.

10 trolley, 52 bus up/down 52nd st (el). in other words, nothing in the way of regional rail. As far as I can tell, an R5 only station wouldn't be that expensive. am I Missing something?

khecht wrote: - "Edgemoor/Fox Point/Merchant's Square" R2 station - There's been talk of adding a stop in the area of I-495 and Delaware Route 3. This was a point of discussion a while back in this thread.

interesting one

re SVM. It's dead. Perhaps it'll resurface as a direct connection to 30th st as some form of the R6 extension but the SVM as originally proposed, thankfully, seems dead.

Suburban Station wrote:

khecht wrote: Couple comments on other stations:

- 52nd & Lancaster: What other transit options are available there? It'll be expensive to rebuild this station, though it might be worth if it the Schuylkill Valley Metro were to ever happen, as this might better support reverse commuters.

10 trolley, 52 bus up/down 52nd st (el). in other words, nothing in the way of regional rail. As far as I can tell, an R5 only station wouldn't be that expensive. am I Missing something?

I imagine due to the complex nature of the station (2 levels) and the fact that it's an elevated station, it would be expensive. Particularly considering the fact that we are in ADA times, an Elevator/Escalator system would essentially be mandatory. And with the 10 providing direct service to the location, it may not be quite necessary.

Of course, with the development at that location, it wouldn't hurt for such a station to be considered again. In fact, since the R6 Cynwyd kind of runs by there, why not make it a stop for that line too?

Delaware service should theoretically improve over the next decade. DelDot already has DART bus service on Sundays, it's just a matter of time before they start funding R2 Sunday service. With the state budget gap this year, don't expect it any time soon.

A stop between Claymont and Wilmington at Fox Point could relieve the crowds at Claymont, as many there drive in a distance. It's much easier highway access off 495 than Claymont.

I thought I remembered talk in the 1990's of building a Park and Ride on US-202 in Lower Gwynedd. If that were the case, it would effectively close out/combine the exisitng Gwynedd Valley Station into the new station.
With all the rehab/expansion projects in recent years at Ambler, Ft. Washington, and North Wales, I'm not too sure such a project ever made it off the planning board... (That Gywnedd Valley station always irked me in how isolated it was compared to the other stations on the line, although I'm not a local who could take advantage of it..)

Tritransit Area wrote:

Suburban Station wrote:

khecht wrote: Couple comments on other stations:

- 52nd & Lancaster: What other transit options are available there? It'll be expensive to rebuild this station, though it might be worth if it the Schuylkill Valley Metro were to ever happen, as this might better support reverse commuters.

10 trolley, 52 bus up/down 52nd st (el). in other words, nothing in the way of regional rail. As far as I can tell, an R5 only station wouldn't be that expensive. am I Missing something?

I imagine due to the complex nature of the station (2 levels) and the fact that it's an elevated station, it would be expensive. Particularly considering the fact that we are in ADA times, an Elevator/Escalator system would essentially be mandatory. And with the 10 providing direct service to the location, it may not be quite necessary.

Of course, with the development at that location, it wouldn't hurt for such a station to be considered again. In fact, since the R6 Cynwyd kind of runs by there, why not make it a stop for that line too?

Sooner or later, they need to deal with the condition of 100+ year old trestle used by the outbound Cynwyd trains, the eastern approach to which is the upper level of the old station. Most likely they'll build a ground connection to the Cynwyd line - the flyover's just not necessary anymore without the 49th St freight yard there anymore. If 52nd St Station were rebuilt, the eastbound platform is easy to deal with - it's between the inbound local track on the main line and the inbound Cynwyd track coming out of the tunnel. The question, really, is what a westbound platform looks like - if they build a ground connection, it's pretty straightforward. I suspect the bridges over 52nd could use some work too. Regardless, this isn't a simple station layout, at least not without engineering of the overall area first.

Live.com has a decent aerial photo of the area for those unfamiliar.

rslitman, Eddington's stairway takes you up to Street Rd about 10 feet east of I-95's on ramp.
There's no place to pull over an automobile to load or unload passengers, and there are "No pedestrian crossing" signs at all 4 corners, so it seems it's only legal to get to the station if you walk from the east on Street Rd.
The schedule lists bus 128 as an alternative, but must not consider it a feeder for the station since the 128 runs on US rt 13 Bristol Pike, on the west side of I-95 and the station.
The schedule also lists bus 304, which comes about a block to the east, and so gives legal pedestrian access to the station. There are several small to medium industries within walking distance, Expressway 95
Business Center, I-95 Industrial Park, and a few just a bit further away, Delaware Expressway Industrial Park, State Rd Industrial Park.
I once pulled into one of those industries' parking lot about 1am 10 years ago looking for a pay phone and saw people taking smoke break, so at least then at least one company had a graveyard shift.

The situation on the Morrisville station is very simple. It's about money, and who would/should pay for it. Obviously, NJT, and NJ by extension, feel very little obligation to spend our tax dollars on that, even if it would help and increase usage of the NEC (which is already over capacity, but that's another issue all together). I don't see a resolution coming about any time soon.