MyTix Mobile Ticketing

Although not entirely rail-related, I've always wished for NJ Transit to come up with some kind of smart-card or Metrocard-style form of payment for buses. Many NJ Transit bus lines are "Exact fare" lines, which is a real pain to deal. Some form of plastic that I could preload with cash would be very helpful. I believe that you can pay for MTA buses with the Metrocard, so this should not be too difficult for NJ Transit to do with their buses.

You can buy a bunch of single ride bus zone tickets. I ride the Riverline, and usually get a stockpile of zone 1 tickets. Those are the same as the south Jersey, and I presume statewide, zone 1 bus tickets. And I have occasionally, although very rarely, used them for my local bus 413 in Burlington Township.

This is a great idea until you buy your phone based e-ticket.. Then something happens and there is a delay etc and by the time you get on the train your phone battery is dead.

I buy bus tickets in the vending machine. That's a pain in the neck for people not near a terminal (I actually buy continuing trip Newark City Subway tickets because the subway is the closest thing to me). I guess the theory is that regular riders would tend to buy a monthly pass.

Incidentally, some buses have the credit card tap-to-pay thing on them. Not sure how widely used that will ever become. I think it only works with those credit cards that have the chip though, and I have mine turned off last time I even had one.

It's even worse for me. My employer's Transitcheck still uses paper vouchers, so to get my tickets I have to visit the agent in Camden.
My prior employer had changed their transitcheck to a debit card less than a year before I left them, so their was a relatively brief time when I could use any ticket vending machine.
I wonder what a paper transit check user has to do to get any kind of ticket if there's no convenient agent.

You can use vouchers by mail to by a monthly pass.

ns3010 wrote:

JoeG wrote:And if flashing a smartphone gets accepted as proof of payment, how long till some hacker makes an app that fakes the screenshot of the ticket?

It would be impossible to pass a screenshot off as an actual ticket. With the Amtrak and Metro-North tickets, they have to be scanned, and I doubt the fake tickets would be read as valid. With the MBTA m-Ticket, which requires no scanning, a screenshot definitely wouldn't work, as the activated tickets move and change so that a fake ticket could immediately be spotted.

Here's a screenshot of an actual m-Ticket that I used last weekend.



The tri-colored bar at the top flashes the colors and the time bounces left and right across the bar. The colors of the bar. as well as the circled zone number, change over time (they have been different each time I used it, and are even different from when you activate it to an hour later). I'm not sure exactly how the colors are determined (and that's exactly the point of them varying), but I'm sure there is some meaning to it.

Also, if you scroll down on the ticket (there's more lines that don't all fit on the screen at once), it shows the time the ticket was activated, as well as the time it expires.

It would be nearly impossible to replicate these e-tickets. Paper tickets would be easier to fabricate than mobile tickets.

AHHHH- if you scroll down they can see when you activated it. I was wondering what prevented one from getting on a crowded train and not activating the ticket until the conductor got close by.

Bigger picture I wonder if NFC doesn't some how eventually work out. Google, or Visa, or mastercard, or the cell phone people, or apple, and/or ________ MIGHT eventually coalesce around something. For people with a smartphone with NFC you could just use your phone. For others you get a plastic fare card with a chip. Brainstorming I guess the problem is one use tickets would be expensive to add NFC to- Right now it seems NFC "stickers" can be had at retail for under a buck a piece. At some point perhaps that gets to be cheap enough to work. Fare collectors could get a scanner that they just "tap" your ticket on- maybe they could even figure out a way to 'scan' you as you walk onto the train- who knows....

Disney is apparently converting over all of Walt Disney World to NFC. Park tickets & room keys apparently will be getting NFC and there are all sorts of 'touchless' uses and electronic ticketing things going on. I think i read that room keys will wind up being bracelets with a 'reloadable' chip (something like Great Wolf Lodge but upgraded to be reusable with rubber band like a livestrong bracelet). Of course Disney and Great Wolf Lodge are selling tickets for probably 40 at the minimum so they dont need to think about making a dollar fare cover the cost of the ticket.

But still some sort of NFC card would be nice if all the agencies had a standard. It's nice for example to be able to drive from Boston or Albany to DC with your EZ pass and at least only get abused for $ and not your time at the tolls. My family travels to NYC by rail less now for a variety of reasons. It's a pain to have to buy a metrocard just about each time I take NJT- often enough i have to take the expired card with money left (because there always is...) to a booth and get it changed over to a new card. Would be nice if my NJT pass would also work the Path and NYC Subway. It would be even nicer if my google card or whatever that i use as a grovery card, a gift card holder, a grocery loyalty card, could also be my train/bus/ferry/subway ticket.

Does cell phone NFC work if the battery is dead? If not maybe you could get a NFC railpass (that's more like the NFC stickers) so it could be read anywhere but you could use the 2 way NFC in your smartphone (or the machine on the platform if you have a dead battery or no device) to recharge the pass?

there happened to be an article in the Wall Street Journal yesterday about NFC:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 59438.html?

seems NFC for ticketing isn't unworkable with phone batteries dying:

"...NFC-enabled ticket apps can work with the phone off. They will even work—under some circumstances—if your battery runs flat. Some NFC readers can generate enough power in your phone to power up the security chip, which may be at least enough to get you home. ..."

michaelk wrote: AHHHH- if you scroll down they can see when you activated it. I was wondering what prevented one from getting on a crowded train and not activating the ticket until the conductor got close by.

They don't really care about the actual time it was activated, so long as it's been activated (and still active) by they time they walk past.

michaelk wrote:For people with a smartphone with NFC you could just use your phone. For others you get a plastic fare card with a chip.

Some people come close to doing this by placing the farecard inside their phone case and just tapping their phone. Some people have even gone as far so as to completely remove the NFC chip from the card, and place it by itself inside their phone cases and just throw out the rest of the card!

Personally, I keep mine in my wallet and just tap my wallet as I walk through the faregate. Although, sometimes, I decide to just be lazy and leave it in my pocket, and just "hip check" the NFC target

They're here ... three-month pilot program on the PVL.

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2013 ... hones.html

A brief "fair use" quote from the link above causes me a mild amount concern:

Passengers can download the MyTix app for free on web-enabled iOS or Android phones. They can use the app to buy one-way tickets and monthly passes for the Pascack Valley Line and between New York Penn Station and the Meadowlands Rail Station for events.

To buy tickets, passengers must create an account. That will save their profile information and ticket purchase history.

Passengers have to activate their tickets before boarding the train and show them to crew members. One-way tickets expire two hours after activation.

Monthly passes activate the first day of each month and stay active for the rest of the month.

A lot of things can happen in two hours. What happens to the revenue if there's a service disruption that last more than two hours? I'd imagine there is some sort of "rescue" mode that overrides for lack of a better word the two hours limit but what if you don't travel? How difficult will it be to get a credit? What if you activate the ticket and you're on the wrong train?

Service disruptions are covered in the FAQ on the NJT website

http://www.njtransit.com/var/var_servle ... icketingTo

Q: If I activate a ticket and then experience an extended service disruption lasting longer than two hours, will my ticket be accepted at the fare gates at Secaucus, or by conductors on connecting trains?

A: In the event that your trip takes longer than expected and your ticket expires, you will be able to display your ticket details to the fare gate representative, conductor or ticket inspector. This will verify your recently expired ticket and allow you to continue your trip.

baldwr wrote:Service disruptions are covered in the FAQ on the NJT website

http://www.njtransit.com/var/var_servle ... icketingTo

Q: If I activate a ticket and then experience an extended service disruption lasting longer than two hours, will my ticket be accepted at the fare gates at Secaucus, or by conductors on connecting trains?

A: In the event that your trip takes longer than expected and your ticket expires, you will be able to display your ticket details to the fare gate representative, conductor or ticket inspector. This will verify your recently expired ticket and allow you to continue your trip.

You must have missed the last part of my concern. I surmised that for lack of a better word an "override" that could be used in a service disruption, but what happens if you don't travel" In other words, you activate the ticket and prepare to travel. All of a sudden, the signals won't signal and the switches won't switch. As a result, you decide not to travel.

How is that handled?

Additionally, I have seen numerous NJT passengers end up in Philadelphia, Croton Harmon, New Rochelle and even Sunnyside yard after boarding the wrong train. With a paper ticket, it remains in your possession for use if you happen to make it back to an area that NJT operates. It is feasible that your ticket activation can expire before you can use your ticket.

These are the type of situations that happen frequently and out of the public eye. As such, I wonder what kind of provisions NJT will make for these eventualities. Will you have to wait weeks for a refund? Days? Hours? I doubt the "service disruption" provision apply (it isn't NJTs fault you boarded the wrong train.")

Just thinking aloud here. Computers override discretion.

ThirdRail7 wrote:

baldwr wrote:Service disruptions are covered in the FAQ on the NJT website

http://www.njtransit.com/var/var_servle ... icketingTo

Q: If I activate a ticket and then experience an extended service disruption lasting longer than two hours, will my ticket be accepted at the fare gates at Secaucus, or by conductors on connecting trains?

A: In the event that your trip takes longer than expected and your ticket expires, you will be able to display your ticket details to the fare gate representative, conductor or ticket inspector. This will verify your recently expired ticket and allow you to continue your trip.

You must have missed the last part of my concern. I surmised that for lack of a better word an "override" that could be used in a service disruption, but what happens if you don't travel" In other words, you activate the ticket and prepare to travel. All of a sudden, the signals won't signal and the switches won't switch. As a result, you decide not to travel.

How is that handled?

Additionally, I have seen numerous NJT passengers end up in Philadelphia, Croton Harmon, New Rochelle and even Sunnyside yard after boarding the wrong train. With a paper ticket, it remains in your possession for use if you happen to make it back to an area that NJT operates. It is feasible that your ticket activation can expire before you can use your ticket.

These are the type of situations that happen frequently and out of the public eye. As such, I wonder what kind of provisions NJT will make for these eventualities. Will you have to wait weeks for a refund? Days? Hours? I doubt the "service disruption" provision apply (it isn't NJTs fault you boarded the wrong train.")

Just thinking aloud here. Computers override discretion.

Personally, I think the e-ticketing shouldn't have been debuted until e-validating was available, obviously on the same platform, to eliminate problems such as this.

Yes, ThirdRail, I understand what you are saying about boarding the wrong train or , for that matter, the wrong service! Sometimes the Darwin Award has its costs. Its only fair that the winner has to "pay" their prize

In response to both your point and 66's point:

1) They are at least testing it on a small section of the system. The PVL is a growing section of railroad, but still small. Based on the FAQ's, it looks like they thought of quite a bit, but, as both of you pointed out, there will probably be some issues. At this point, I would hope NJT would be sympathetic to the passengers in un-thought of situations, somewhat like the $5 on board surcharge "grace period" when first introducing new TVMs.

2) I also agree that an e-validation system would be better than just having a ticket that expires. The latter is too light rail or bus like. I would think that with a QR code, each ticket would be unique and, once scanned, capable of being cancelled, preventing the same user or multiple users from passing the ticket off more than once - ala the ticket punch. We all do this when we go to an event where we purchased a ticket electronically from TicketMaster. If those e-tickets are bought third hand via E-Bay or StubHub, we probably hope too that multiples were not sold and the one's we purchased still works!

Consider the following situation... The first weekend in early March, the ALP-45s were holding down the M&E and several of us were riding those trains that weekend. What would prevent the auto-expiring ticket from allowing someone to ride in then out again on the same ticket. For instance, the ride to/from Maplewood can easily be done in just about two hours. As long as the ticket has not expired prior to being presented it is still valid. An e-vailidated ticket would be cancelled force the customer to buy a second ticket. (NOTE: I know the M&E is not in the trial, but this is just an example if the system were full deployed).

3) From a revenue collection standpoint, however, a self cancelling ticket insures the RR gets its money. Maybe not all of it (see above), but one way or another it gets it. Once activated, it cannot be used after it expires. This would certainly help in situations like events at the Meadowlands or during special holidays / times when trains are packed and revenue collection can be cumbersome. Also, an auto expiring ticket requires less on-board equipment such as scanners that do not function in cell phone black holes (ala Amtrak and the Baltimore Tunnels).

Not trying to be argumentative with either one of you, but open minded on this one. From a consumer standpoint and RR standpoint this could be a win-win (conveyance and revenue collection), but the system needs, understandably, a good vetting prior to full deployment.