My idea for connecting the LIRR to Roosevelt Feild and HUB

I got thinking about this the other day, and everyone (including myself) keeps on thinking of complicated ways to connect the LIRR to Roosevelt Feild and the HUB. Well, I thought of an easy way to do it that wouldn't require evicting anyone and tearing down houses, or businesses. .

I know there were plans to re-open the LIRR directly down the Garden City Secondary, which would require a lot of construction between the freight yard and the Mall.

Another past plan that was brought up was to tear down some houses in Carle Place and put some form of light rail or monorail system in from Carle Place Station.

Well, here is my idea! It still uses the idea of a form of light rail, but as I said it doesn't require anyone to be relocated. I based this idea off of the JFK Air Train. The LIRR could probably very easily add a new station either over the Meadowbrook, or just slightly west, or slightly east. Run an elevated track on pillars down the middle of the Meadowbrook. The Air Train was built like that, and as far as I can see it didn't really disrupt anything. They could probably just use the same exact cars, or maybe slightly newer and updated versions of the Air Train's cars. Run the elevated track from the theoretical station where the LIRR and Meadowbrook meet, have a station on that little patch of land between Norstrom and the mall exit off the Meadowbrook. You could then put a pedestrian cross walk w/ traffic light, or a foot bridge over the road that loops around the mall. Continue the track down the meadowbrook a little further and you can connect it to the Coliseum and Marriot in a similar fashion, with a small station on the opened space between the Meadowbrook and the Marriot....or just run the track directly to the Marriot and have a loop turnaround on the west side of the Coliseum.

Now, we don't need a big fancy station that would take ages to complete like they're trying to do at Jamaica. I think a platform on each side (east and westbound) for the LIRR, a small foot bridge like the one at Carle Place Station, and a small platform with a few shelter booths would do fine. This is the only way to really connect the LIRR to the Mall, HUB, and Coliseum with the least amount of relocating, construction, and cost.

I think it also makes more sense too as far as travel time. I know it still wouldn't really help the south branch folks much (unless they in theory continued the elevated rail all the way down the meadowbrook to where the babylon line crosses). The LIRR wouldn't even really have to reconfigure the schedules too much, they could just add the Carle Place Meadowbrook station to the exsisting trains that run that line. As a whole, it would be faster because compared to running on the secondary, 1st of all it would be a slow track speed, and second of all you have to go further west to Floral Park, hence benefiting anyone coming from either the Ronkonkoma/Greenport branch, or the Port Jeff branch.

This would reduce car traffic to the mall and Coliseum. It would increase volume to the mall and Coliseum. It would probably also encourage more people to come out to Nassau County from NYC and also from the east.

So that's my idea. Not sure if anyone else thought of it and said anything about it already, but I haven't heard it yet.

Sorry to say the LIRR as it stands today is all that it will ever be. There has been may good ideas that many of you have thought of, but not in this life time. Think about it, the LIRR can't even think of updating a line without NIMBYs screaming. Be glad that there wasn't any of these cry babies around when the railroad expaned in the early part of the last century because if there were there wouldn't be a LIRR as it is now.
Look at the grief going on now for the freight tunnel, another thing that will never be built, imagine if the PRR had to go through all the red tape to get the Penn Station project done, they would've thrown their hands up and said forget it! It is a crying shame.

Mike

lirrmike wrote:Sorry to say the LIRR as it stands today is all that it will ever be. There has been may good ideas that many of you have thought of, but not in this life time. Think about it, the LIRR can't even think of updating a line without NIMBYs screaming. Be glad that there wasn't any of these cry babies around when the railroad expaned in the early part of the last century because if there were there wouldn't be a LIRR as it is now.
Look at the grief going on now for the freight tunnel, another thing that will never be built, imagine if the PRR had to go through all the red tape to get the Penn Station project done, they would've thrown their hands up and said forget it! It is a crying shame.

Mike

Not only the NIMBY's but where would the money come from for projects
like this?
New York commuter fares are already about the highest in the country
and they will likely go up even more without any more expansion projects.
One proposal that I did see on one of the other threads was a proposal
for a shuttle between Hicksville and Babylon. This one makes sense to
me, an engine and a coach or maybe two coaches going back and forth
using existing facilities, it could probably work fairly well.
Most of the proposals that I have seen on here would require a huge
expense for expansion of the physical plant and as you said, they are not
going anywhere.
Noel Weaver

Didn't people complain about Roosevelt Field Mall when it was expanding in the 1st place? Don't people still complain about all the friggin traffic it generates? Aren't people complaining about all of the appartments that are getting built in the area? I also remember when they expanded the Northern State Parkway from a nice little 4 lane high way to the six lane speedway it is now so many people protested and complained (including myself I must admit). If there's all the complaining about all of that and lots more, but it still ends up happening despite the protesting and complaining, why can't the railroad get their shit done despite all the complaining? Ya know what I mean?

The idea for a Babylon/Hicksville shuttle is a great one! With some creative scheduling, and perhaps some more shuttles (Hicksville-Jamaca, Bethpage-Riverhead/Yaphauk/Ronkonkoma), you could get to any point on the Island you want. Set that up, take all the money you're thinking of spending elsewhere and use it to subsidize a low fare Island ticket...

"I got thinking about this the other day, and everyone (including myself) keeps on thinking of complicated ways to connect the LIRR to Roosevelt Feild and the HUB. Well, I thought of an easy way to do it that wouldn't require evicting anyone and tearing down houses, or businesses. ."

None of the plans I've read here are complicated, nor do they involve tearing down houses or any other buildings.


", which would require a lot of construction between the freight yard and the Mall."

Not quite so. The ROW is there, the tracks just need to be replaced and possibly double tracked.


" tear down some houses in Carle Place and put some form of light rail or monorail system in from Carle Place Station."

Where the hell did you read this cracked out plan?


"Run an elevated track on pillars down the middle of the Meadowbrook."

Oh, and this isn't complicated? Either way, I had the same idea, but with a monorail, and from Freeport.


"This is the only way to really connect the LIRR to the Mall, HUB, and Coliseum with the least amount of relocating, construction, and cost. "

HA! BULLSHIT! This is probably one of the MOST costly plans I've ever read. And it is FAR from the only real way to connect the LIRR with the hub(which includes the mall and coliseum). Using the secondary would be FAR cheaper. The tracks go right through the heart of the hub, and with the bronze spur, you have service to the entire shopping district. All you need is a loop track down past the coliseum and the hotel, along with a circulartor bus for Roosevelt Field Mall to a station on the Bronze spur. Yes, there'd have to be some reconstruction of the lines, but it doesn't involve tying up traffic with lane clossures for monthes.


"and second of all you have to go further west to Floral Park"

Not true if they rebuild the Mineola-CLP ROW which is part of the nassau county plan for the hub. That way they could run trains from Mineola to the hub loop, which would serve THREE lines(as opposed to the 2 that yours would serve).


The Hicksville-Babylon shuttle idea is great IMO. It's short, should be fairly inexpensive to operate, and serves a HUGE purpose.

CRRLI MUST BE REBUILT BY 2020. but till then lets focous on the NCC/RFM shuttles and the Hicks/beth-babylon shuttles, thoes are what I can call "phase 1" in LIRR entering the 21st century and intra island serivice.

perhaps I should have said with the least amount of hassle, and the least amount of complaints from NIMBYs. The only thing along the edge of the Meadowbrook between the LIRR and Coliseum is a bunch of businesses. I think with all of the NIMBYs, the LIRR will probably never be able to open up an active line again, even with the already exsisting ROWs, wether it's from Mineola, or from the Garden City branch. I know the construction would take up a lane or two on the parkway, but that's why I suggest something less complicated than the AirTrain project. Is that big fancy expansion of Jamaica really neccecary? Like I said,just a simple platform with a simple foot bridge, and simple shelters.

The part about moving people out of their homes in Carle Place is something that was brought up at some of the public hearings. I'm not sure how long ago it was mentioned, or how serious they were about it, but I was just stating it as an idea that was out there. I'd heard it from my dad, and several friends who also attended the public hearings.

i hate to say it, but the LIRR needs dictator ship and just build it. the way railroads build things years ago (yes i know there was not many people back then) once its built they cant do much then when they complain bann them from using the service

while all the people welcoming the service can use it. thuss making them have to travel to the main or montauk branch, you will see how fast they will shut up when they no longer have to burn 3bucks a gallon getting from GC to the main or montauk when all they need to do is notch out the shoe leather express.

I think the only way this could ever be possible would be if the mall funded most, of not all, of the project. It would obviously be in there best interest as it would bring in a lot more business, however I sort of doubt that the extent of which would justify the cost. Even if it did, I still wouldn't hold my breath....

" I know the construction would take up a lane or two on the parkway, but that's why I suggest something less complicated than the AirTrain project. Is that big fancy expansion of Jamaica really neccecary? Like I said,just a simple platform with a simple foot bridge, and simple shelters. "

You will still need to close lanes no matter what for the construction, no matter how simple it is. Hell, you could be dropping the sections in place by a fucking helicopter and you'll still need to close lanes.

And the only part of the secondary near homes is from Washington Av to Clinton rd. One block! That's it. And the Mineola-CLP is also bordered almost entirely by either nothing or business. Only a few blocks are homes.


And I think it's more the hub in general that would benefit, not just a single mall.

NCC, the Coliseum, and the Marriot would all benefit greatly from either an LIRR connection or a light rail or elevated connection.

If there are no houses near the Mineola ROW what's the big issue to the NIMBYs then? Those clowns live in a fantasy world! (I know a lot of us railfans do too...but atleast we don't think the world revolves around us).

If the LIRR was to open up the secondary again, what kind of solution would be put in place to connect the tracks to the Coliseum, NCC, and Marriot? A dedicated shuttle bus?

The sheds and stuff that were built where the yard used to be by Stewart Ave across the intersection from that relatively new Mobil, do those belong to the railroad? I still remember going past there when I was a kid, they had that HUGE fork lift to remove trailers from the trains, even though I never saw it being used. Ah, I miss being a kid!

RPM2Night wrote:If the LIRR was to open up the secondary again, what kind of solution would be put in place to connect the tracks to the Coliseum, NCC, and Marriot? A dedicated shuttle bus?

With my proposed plan, here is one of the bus routes I was thinking of, but it is slightly flawed in my opinion as I am trying to find a way for it to service Hempstead Turnpike and Hofstra.

There would be dedicated bus service connecting the GCS at Endo Station it would then take Perimeter Rd it would head west on Charles Lindberg Blvd all the way around to hit all the mueseums and businesses. From there it would enter the Coliseum from Earle Ovington Blvd and exit the same way and then head north to get back on to Charles Lindberg Blvd where it would then hit the Marriot.

From the Marriot it would them go the Hempstead Tpke and turn Glen Curtis Blvd to service the school and EAB Plaza. From EAB Plaza it would then go back to Hempstead Tpke to head west on the Tpke to make a stop at Hofstra at California Ave. From Hofstra it would continue down the Tpke to Oak St. On Oak st it would head north and service the few businnesses there as well as UPS turning on Commerical Blvd to head to Quentin Roosevelt Blvd so that it would be able to service both malls the Roosevelt Field and the Source (I am not sure that the Source Mall is even serviced by bus currently). from Roosevelt Field it would take Zeckendorf Blvd to the street where Walmart, Target and the other stores are and turn down there to make a stop in front of Walmart. It would then leave that little plaza on the west side of Costco to Transverse Dr to enter the Source Mall along Source Dr and service the mall along that road all the way back around to Merhchants Concourse.

It would then go all the way back to Endo Station.

Like I said it is flawed in many areas, but it would also serviced alot of area. Approx running time is an hour from start to finish. During special events and occasions at the Coliseum there would be a dedicated shuttle that does nothing but goes back and forth from the Station and the Coliseum

To compliment this service is a shuttle that I call "Shoppers Run", it would start at Endo Station and then go straight and service both malls and the Shopping plaza where Wal-Mart and Best Buy is as well as the Best Western on Old Country Rd, it would also make a trip through the shopping plaza where Tower Records and Barnes and Noble is.

RPM2Night wrote:The sheds and stuff that were built where the yard used to be by Stewart Ave across the intersection from that relatively new Mobil, do those belong to the railroad? I still remember going past there when I was a kid, they had that HUGE fork lift to remove trailers from the trains, even though I never saw it being used. Ah, I miss being a kid!

The sheds and everything that is along Quentin Roosevelt Blvd between Commerce and Stewart is all MTA, I think I remember seeing a sign saying something about communications or of the sorts. I will be by there later today so i can let you know.

"what kind of solution would be put in place to connect the tracks to the Coliseum, NCC, and Marriot? A dedicated shuttle bus? "

Well, NCC is already served directly by the secondary. The Coliseum and Marriot, I'm proposing, would be served directly by a rail loop.

Description: After crossing Quentin Roosevelt Blvd(heading eastbound), it will curve south via the Mitchel Field spur, crossing Charles Lindbergh Blvd, Earle Ovington Blvd, passing the coliseum on its north side, and then north along the Meadowbrook Parkway up to the secondary. The three possible stops on the new trackage are Nassau Coliseum, Hofstra University, and the northern border of Mitchel County Park.

The stop for NCC would be on the secondary at Selfridge(unless Endo is a better location)

And that property at the former Garden City Yard still belongs to the MTA, so yes, those steel sheds are MTA.


One of One-Sixty: You can just combine the Coliseum and Marriot stops. They are right next to each other(despite what mapquest shows)

As for the Source Mall, it is served by the N78, N79, and N35...and maybe even the N22, not sure on that one though. The N92(hub shuttle) doesn't serve it any more, which, IMO, is stupid.

Honestly, I love your bus idea. I think that the routing is decent for the hub. Perhaps some runs can skip certain sections in order to speed up the trip.

One part of my plan though involves extending the Bronze spur to Merrick Av, which includes a stop right at the Source Mall. Also, I plan for a stop at the first crossing with Zeckendorf(the one closer to the mall), where a shuttle bus will loop around the mall stopping at door fronts as well as the main bus terminal.


It is great to see that many of us have ideas for the hub. I'm enjoying reading all this, even though we all know that the chances of this are VERY slim, if any.