MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdale

LIRR does not use a cab-proceed signal like some other railroads. LIRR's most favorable signal is clear.

Agree 100%. (Although maybe Absolute Clear is "more" favorable ? ?)

This is why I'm pondering the use of low homes with a single head, at interlockings with medium speed crossovers. They best the low homes give today at Jay and Hall are Slow Clear, Slow Approach.

I suppose the best thing to do is take a spin down there and see if the signals are readable from the road crossings at Carleton or Rt.111...

Look REALLY close, and you will see two red lights. They essentially put two traffic lights at the bottom as the dwarf or pedestal signals, although they are low.

Dave, on LIRR absolute-clear is used in a different situation than clear. Clear is the normally used indication to show a clear block ahead. The absolute-clear is used in case of a failure of the train's automatic speed control system. And it means clear to the next interlocking station.

The absolute clear is shown in pos-light signalling by 3 vertical yellow lights flashing. And in LIRR color-light signals is a flashing-green over flashing-red.

LIRR also has a color signal called clear block (green-over-green). I'm not sure what it's used for; possibly a proceed indication at the end of signalled territory. Maybe some employees on here could help us with that one.

MattAmity90 wrote:Look REALLY close, and you will see two red lights. They essentially put two traffic lights at the bottom as the dwarf or pedestal signals, although they are low.

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You beat me to it, thanks for posting the photo!

I see a red stop signal on the right, and I see a Red over White on the left.

AFAIK Red over White is not in the LIRR Rules of the Operating Department, but maybe I'm wrong. Rule 290 is Red/Yellow and Rule 291 is Red/Flashing Red.

...which is why I asked about a Bulletin / General Order / Book of Rules change to support the new Central Islip being put online.

Head-end View wrote:LIRR also has a color signal called clear block (green-over-green). I'm not sure what it's used for; possibly a proceed indication at the end of signalled territory. Maybe some employees on here could help us with that one.

There wouldn't be a signal at the end of ...signaled territory. From discussions (ad nausea) on this forum, LIRR does not consider Manual Block Territory to be non-signaled territory. The Book of Rules backs this up, it defines both Manual Block and Automatic Block as signal systems made up of consecutive blocks - absence of track circuits notwithstanding. From what I understand, at the end of a signaled block entering a secondary track, there could be a Rule 296 fig.B "END OF BLOCK" sign. This was the case when the Rule 251 ABS signaling ended at Bliss, at the entrance to "C" secondary. (Before they invented the NYAR Secondary)

Clear Block Rule 280 is used to govern the entrance to a Manual Block "Proceed; Manual Block Clear". To my knowledge, the last one in service on the LIRR is KO2-11E. I've seen Clear Block shown as Green over Two Reds, but I haven't seen it shown as a Green / Green, but it's certainly possible that it was at one time.

The green-over-green for clear-block is new since 2006 when LIRR first began color-light signals at Patchogue. Green-over-red-over-red would be a clear on most railroads.

The LIRR is switching over to a similar signaling system that Metro-North uses, which is a cab signal based system. The system will utilize only signals at interlockings and those signals will not display aspects that relay route information to the Engineer such as if he will be making a straight move or diverging movement. The new signals will work in conjunction with cab signals and only display information relating to the track immediately ahead. The Engineer will proceed only in accordance with his cab signal indications while abiding by applicable rules. The aim for the railroad is to one day switch the entire system to this method of signaling and eliminate the position lights and wayside automatic signals.

The new signals aspects and indications were placed in service by General Notice 3-84 on May 7th, 2018.

Rule 298A, PROCEED: Proceed, governed by cab signal indications.
(Green over white)

Rule 298B, ABSOLUTE PROCEED: Proceed, slow speed within interlocking limits. Track clear to next interlocking signal. Approach next interlocking signal prepared to stop.
(Flashing green over flashing white)

Rule 298C, SLOW PROCEED: Proceed; slow speed within interlocking limits then governed by cab signal indications outside of interlocking limits.
(Red over green over white)

Rule 298D, RESTRICTING PROCEED: Proceed; restricted speed within interlocking limits, then governed by cab signal indications outside of interlocking limits.
(Red over white)

Rule 298E, RESTRICTING: Proceed at restricted speed.
(Flashing red)

Rule 298F, STOP SIGNAL: Stop
(Red)

The Engineer will get an MAS code (80mph) on a straight move through these new interlockings once cut-in and medium speed code (40mph) for diverging moves. These signals are not the same as the low clearance color lights as seen in Jamaica. CI interlocking is now one interlocking and remote station as opposed to 2 (CI1 & CI2). CI2 has been eliminated and is no longer in service. The passing siding is no longer in service and the switch points have been removed and dismantled at the old CI2 switch. During the summer weekends, more work will be performed which either cut in new switches, signals or both, one by one. The aim is to have the second track in full operation by 2018's end. Some new interlockings will be created and others modified. You'll have FARM, PW, DANCH, JS, PINE, BRENT, CI, OCEAN, POND and KO. PINE will be at the location of the Pine Aire double ended freight track. The old electric locks will be dual control switches controlled by Divide and will feature the new color lights that will govern entrance and exit to said siding.

Good info, thanks! So LIRR and MNRR will finally be on the same signal system? That has huge implications for inter-operability and equipment standardization (save the over/under issue).

No, it is a similar signal system. The biggest reason it is not the same is that there would be conflicting signal aspects with current signals.

MN equipment, and every other railroad, lack LIRR's ASC system on their equipment. So no, this isn't any step closer to "brand unity", other than trying to copycat a signal system into a completely different animal.

Thanks, SwingMan. Wasn't sure... I knew LIRR had extra aspects. I'm sure it's not easy to update.

Head-end View wrote:The green-over-green for clear-block is new since 2006 when LIRR first began color-light signals at Patchogue. Green-over-red-over-red would be a clear on most railroads.

Thanks, Head-end, I was wondering as I wrote that last post how the Clear Block was displayed at SK2 in Speonk before the CTC was complete from there to Montauk.

LIRRcustoms.com wrote:The new signals aspects and indications were placed in service by General Notice 3-84 on May 7th, 2018.

Thanks LIRRcustoms - that's exactly what I was looking for.

I thought there were also going to be interlockings at "Lawn" and "Pilgrim", as well, no?
Lawn would be at the east end of the Farmingdale long siding, across the road from Pinelawn.
Also I'm not sure about "Ocean" I think the whole shebangle that will replace KO1 will be Pond. But things change...

Well, the post re: the new signal aspects is quite an eye-opener. I had no idea this was in the works.

A few observations: First I assume this new system will be only on the new double-track section to Ronkonkoma, at least for the near future. And second, that means there will now be three different signal aspect systems in use on different parts of LIRR, besides the Amtrak aspects in the Penn Sta. tunnels. Third, LIRR wasn't even close to fully converting from PL sig's to color-light sig's. And now there will be two different types of color-light signals? And fourth, I wonder how much of a problem that will be for the engineers........ SEPTA in the Philadelphia area also uses at least three different sets of aspects. Not good. It seems like the only New York area railroad that has completely standardized on a new system is Metro-North.

Also these new LIRR signals are not that similar to Metro-North, which outside of GCT only uses two basic aspects, red-over-red and flashing green. They do have a few special signals inside the GCT complex.

Okay just to make it clear, am I correct as I say the following? (Also Edward has not posted because of the recent storms and rain).

-East of Brentwood it is single tracked (BRENT will be eliminated by the way).
-At the new CI, trains switch from the original running track to the new track that has been connected to the original running track where CI1 was located leading into the Central Islip station (they cut out the switch at CI1 and connected the siding to the current running, and the current running to the new).
-CI2 you mentioned has been demolished with the current siding to be connected down the road to the new track, and the main running track continuing on into Ronkonkoma.
-That BARRICADE symbol is attached to the siding track East of Lowell Avenue.