Morristown & Erie 110th Anniversary Excursion

See this thread: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 4&t=148327

Looks like a nice trip But, the $$ to steep for me!!!!

Wait a minute! The Morristown & Erie excursion isn't even operating on M&E tracks?

Looks like a nice ride, by the way.

It's nice to see that there is any kind of fan trip at all these days, but I have to agree with everyone else who is going to say that it is a bit pricey.

Questions/comments....

The NJT P40 is unusual, but it is really ugly, and just ruins any nice photos, as it is not a good match for 1960/70's era GP-38 and a C424. A 1960's era
ex-CNJ GP-40P would look a lot nicer (I think there are some left?)

As a railfan interested in track and signals and "seeing the Railroad", there is nothing more frustrating to me than riding in a sealed window coach with no dutch doors....(There will probably be officials chasing everyone out of the vestibules, anyway). I guess there are people who like sitting in a comet coach on a fan trip(???), but if you can barely establish that you are even on freight trackage, what's the point? If you just want to ride on a train, go to Albany and back on amtrak. It's a nice ride.

If this train sells out, it will bring in, nominally, $150,000.00 Dies it really cost this much to run this trip?

Comparisons.....
LA rail is currently in the middle of a 15 day private trip...LA to Grand Central...3 days in NY, then on to DC, New Orleans (a few days there) and back to LA.
4 private cars on the back of Amtk, with OPEN END obs car.....$3550 per person.

Or how about riding an open end obs from LA to Oakland on the rear of the Coast Starlight, overnighting in Oakland, and then riding the detour Starlight
back to LA via Altamont pass, and freight only trackage on the UP from Lathrop to Lancaster, CA (about 300 miles), including tehachapi loop. I think it was about $500. for the 2 day, 800 mile RT. Or if you want to do the same trip in an Amtrak superliner sightseer lounge car, it's about $200 RT.

And the Lexington Group trips...which are sponsored by NS and other freight RR's.....and are for "RR historians", and charge $75.00 per person per trip...and that's for all business car trips on freight trackage. So obviously, the freight RR's can run trips without charging an arm and a leg, if they want to. And if you think that the Lexington Group members are all high powered influential people the the RR's want to impress, think again.

I rode the "Farewell to the CNJ RT in the 1980's. It was totally unmemorable. The tri-state idiots of the did their best to make sure that THEY enjoyed the trip, and no one else did. The car attendants were just awful. More rules than a TCA train show.

All that safety and security stuff......Out here on the west coast, almost all of the "Railfan" trips, consist of private cars on the back of Amtrak trains, or are on shortlines. I have never ridden a trip where the vestibules were off limits, and on some trips, they use the "Pony express" car, which is like riding a baggage car with the doors open! So what's the deal? Is it just safer to ride on a train in Calif? Are people in NJ just more apt to hurt themselves on a train?

Comments welcome.

Two words Mr. Pdtrains... "Insurance regulations" Unfortunatly we live in a sue happy society. If just one person gets so much as pinched finger everyone freaks out. And because of that, the cost to insure such a trip probably nessecitates the high cost to buy tickets even for just a comet 5 seat. I agree with the P40 comment too, a old former CNJ geep would've been better. And for that matter, the M&E should've used the sw1500 #20 for their engine for the trip, that would've been cool.

airman00 wrote:Two words Mr. Pdtrains... "Insurance regulations" Unfortunatly we live in a sue happy society. If just one person gets so much as pinched finger everyone freaks out. And because of that, the cost to insure such a trip probably nessecitates the high cost to buy tickets even for just a comet 5 seat. I agree with the P40 comment too, a old former CNJ geep would've been better. And for that matter, the M&E should've used the sw1500 #20 for their engine for the trip, that would've been cool.

I understand the insurance thing, but it still doesn't explain why the cost for this trip is considerably higher than most other trips around today. Those trips have to be insured, too. Is it like car insurance...it costs twice as much in NJ as it does in most of the rest of the coountry?

I think the P40 is there for the HEP for the cars, they should be able to power all the cars. I think its cool that the locos will have an EMD, GE and an Alco!

Jtgshu wrote:I think the P40 is there for the HEP for the cars, they should be able to power all the cars. I think its cool that the locos will have an EMD, GE and an Alco!

Me too, but others aren't too happy!!! If its not one thing, its the other!!

pdtrains wrote:

airman00 wrote:Two words Mr. Pdtrains... "Insurance regulations" Unfortunatly we live in a sue happy society. If just one person gets so much as pinched finger everyone freaks out. And because of that, the cost to insure such a trip probably nessecitates the high cost to buy tickets even for just a comet 5 seat. I agree with the P40 comment too, a old former CNJ geep would've been better. And for that matter, the M&E should've used the sw1500 #20 for their engine for the trip, that would've been cool.

I understand the insurance thing, but it still doesn't explain why the cost for this trip is considerably higher than most other trips around today. Those trips have to be insured, too. Is it like car insurance...it costs twice as much in NJ as it does in most of the rest of the coountry?

I've heard it said that NJ has some of the highest property tax rates in the U.S. Also some of the highest railroad tax rates in the U.S. as well. If that stands true then that might help explain that insurance rates are some of the highest in the country too.

Considering the fact that gas is now over $3.00 a gallon, and the price of just about everything has increased, the price of these tickets is directly proportionate to the times.

Jtgshu wrote:I think the P40 is there for the HEP for the cars, they should be able to power all the cars. I think its cool that the locos will have an EMD, GE and an Alco!

You are assuming the Alco is cleared to run over Amtrak's NEC through Newark Penn. Since even NS's local people have been kept totally in the dark about this trip, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few hiccups before this train runs ... IF it does.

Off Pending wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:I think the P40 is there for the HEP for the cars, they should be able to power all the cars. I think its cool that the locos will have an EMD, GE and an Alco!

You are assuming the Alco is cleared to run over Amtrak's NEC through Newark Penn. Since even NS's local people have been kept totally in the dark about this trip, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few hiccups before this train runs ... IF it does.

Thats not a huge hiccup - off the top of my head, Im not sure if the Alco is cleared on Amtrak, but it would be easy to check in the Amtrak ETT. If not, again its not a big deal, a simple Form D line 13 would allow the loco to pass through the station. There shouldn't be any clearance issues, as they are cleared on a large portion of NJT's MandE. The same problem happened with the Bennet Levin E8s on the Railway Age trip a few years back - someone realized those locos weren't listed in the timetable (In NJTs IIRC) so there was a slight delay before it left while a Form D was copied to allow them to run over the territory.

Jtgshu wrote:

Off Pending wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:I think the P40 is there for the HEP for the cars, they should be able to power all the cars. I think its cool that the locos will have an EMD, GE and an Alco!

You are assuming the Alco is cleared to run over Amtrak's NEC through Newark Penn. Since even NS's local people have been kept totally in the dark about this trip, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few hiccups before this train runs ... IF it does.

Thats not a huge hiccup - off the top of my head, Im not sure if the Alco is cleared on Amtrak, but it would be easy to check in the Amtrak ETT. If not, again its not a big deal, a simple Form D line 13 would allow the loco to pass through the station. There shouldn't be any clearance issues, as they are cleared on a large portion of NJT's MandE. The same problem happened with the Bennet Levin E8s on the Railway Age trip a few years back - someone realized those locos weren't listed in the timetable (In NJTs IIRC) so there was a slight delay before it left while a Form D was copied to allow them to run over the territory.

" I got no info on this train. I can't run you. Fax me some info" Said every North Jersey Train Dispatcher............

Oh trust me VV, I know all about "not having your paperwork" Ive sat at Hunter for HOURS and watched several sunrises because of "paperwork issues"......hahaha

To clear up some issues -

The trip has been cleared with both NS and NJT, and their dispatchers will be made aware of the trip. We are operating over the NEC on NJT's trackage rights.

M&E #18 and #19 are the only Amtrak-certified Alcos in existence, complete with cab signals. Both locomotives are also listed in NJT's ETT. However, NS #3010 will actually be leading over the NEC portion, and it is also qualified to operate as a lead locomotive on Amtrak.

The P40 is the only available locomotive that can power an 18-car train, due to the fact that it does not have a separate HEP power plant like the GP40s. The P40 derives HEP directly from the main generator, and therefore has an almost infinite supply of HEP. We either need one P40 or three GP40s to do the same amount of work. From a fuel and cost perspective, it doesn't make sense. Plus, it allowed us the interesting opportunity to have an Alco, EMD, and GE on the head end - a little something for everyone.

The costs of the tickets on this trip are directly proportional to our costs - remember, we are operating over two different railroads and using equipment from several different owners. Insurance is high. Operating costs (i.e. fuel) are high. We need several crews that are qualified on the different territories. Operating the private cars generally costs more than operating commuter coaches. Etc. etc. etc.

No, our excursion is not operating on M&E tracks, although it does operate on M&E trackage rights from Hackettstown to Hoboken. If you want to ride an excursion over M&E tracks, the Whippany Railway Museum already offers that - we wanted to offer something different, utilize our private passenger car fleet, and allow the public a chance to explore our rail connections with NS and NJT.

If anyone has any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me here or at [email protected].