Michigan Central Station

Both cities have embarrassing stations today but I guess that reflects their embarrassing conditions. Isn't michigan central on the way to Toronto?

A bit of RR history... The Michigan Central RR was the name given to the NY Central RR's assets in Canada and the state of Michigan. The MC depot was located right next to the two-track Detroit-Windsor Ontario tunnel, built over a century ago.

The MC depot was the third depot for the MC--the second being alongside the Detroit River and dead-ended by Third Street downtown, which burned down in December of 1912, back when the third MC depot was still being constructed. Whenever trains from Canada through the tunnel still used the the downtown (Sixth Street) freight yard or the second depot, those trains had to execute a rather long backup in order to get from the tunnel exit near 18th Street to the yards or the passenger depot at Third Street.

Detroit wrote:A bit of RR history... The Michigan Central RR was the name given to the NY Central RR's assets in Canada and the state of Michigan

Mr. Detroit, how then does Canada Southern fit into the picture?

Edit: Wiki says it all: "The railway was leased to the Michigan Central Railroad (MCR) for 99 years; in 1929 it was subleased to the New York Central Railroad (NYC) for 999 years"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Southern_Railway" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have to agree with Mr. GNB, at this point, MCS is too much building for anything...I do like the map location for train service and think a smaller, modern building would be a great start for train service.

AgentSkelly wrote:I have to agree with Mr. GNB, at this point, MCS is too much building for anything...I do like the map location for train service and think a smaller, modern building would be a great start for train service.

MCS really is in an awkward position - close but not close enough to downtown Detroit, with nothing much around it (unlike New Center Station, with Wayne State and the Henry Ford Hospital), and requiring a backup move to get Wolverines to Pontiac. If it were within the People Mover's orbit, sure. If Tigers Stadium were still there, okay. If Amtrak and VIA were interested in cross-border traffic and CP was alright with it, fine (and you could skip VIA Windsor by train in favor of a bus over the Ambassador.) Where it stands now though... let Detroit regrow before it adapts the MCS site, let alone the station, for reuse.

Of all those ifs cross border traffic makes the most sense. Toronto chicago via Ann Arbor and detroit makes a lot of sense

What really doesn't make sense to me is Pontiac. It's 40 minute Pontiac-Detroit and another 57 Detroit-Ann Arbor. Or you could drive Pontiac to Ann Arbor in 55 minutes. It is beyond me why anybody would get up an hour earlier for the same result.

Ages ago you could use the RR tunnels from Detroit to Windsor with passenger cars,not sure if P-42's and Amfleet fit in those tunnels.
The better crossing point is Port Huron/Sarnia,a less conjested crossing then Detroit/Windsor(have no love for the Ambassador Bridge
to Windsor or Detroit)

Backshophoss - we up here in Canada are doing our best on the bridge thing, to the point of paying 100pc of the cost. Moroun mojo takes a lot to overcome...

As for Windsor or Sarnia, the reality of the U.S./Canada border means it would be better to terminate and let VIA operate a separate service. Look at how Adirondack will drop St Lambert once MTR gets customs because the border stop adds so much to running time.

Sarnia has been downgraded by VIA service wise and they have acquired some track between London-Windsor so VIA's ongoing focus seems to be more in that direction. They did open a new Windsor station though which I think someone said the location of which might make running from Detroit harder if that came up again - can't remember where I read it though.

dowlingm wrote: Sarnia has been downgraded by VIA service wise and they have acquired some track between London-Windsor so VIA's ongoing focus seems to be more in that direction. They did open a new Windsor station though which I think someone said the location of which might make running from Detroit harder if that came up again - can't remember where I read it though.

The only direct route for a VIA train to the access the tunnel would be a connection over to CP just west of Chatham where CN & CP cross .......but it would bypass about 35 miles of VIA owned track and also the new Windsor station.

A train could serve the new VIA station and tunnel but it would involve a back-up move and a time consuming route over industrial trackage in the Windsor area.

But for now.......wouldn’t the easiest solution to a cross border route be a dedicated bus from Amtrak Detroit to VIA Windsor?........ Similar to what CN once provided:

(With a little tweaking of schedules.....a reasonable connection allowing for time to cross the border could be provided)

^ as someone who made the Detroit-Windsor rail connection two years ago I can say that bus would be fantastic. I ended up taking a cab from Detroit Amtrak, stopped to get a beer near the Opra, got on the people mover to Millander, got on the Windsor cross border bus at the tunnel entrance and then took a cab to the VIA station (I actually spent the night in Windsor before getting on VIA for Toronto).

It was an interesting trip, but not one I would be excited to repeat.

Extend the Woodward light rail to the Amtrak station and on the other end push it across the river to an underground terminus adjoining the Tunnel Plaza, the CBSA piece of which could then handle the immigration niceties. It wouldn't be that close to VIA but Caesar's would be a much bigger trip generator anyway

The Chicago-Toronto International was handled the same way as the NY Penn-Toronto Maple Leaf,entire crew change
at the border from Amtrak to VIA,the only wrinkle was there was a mix of Amtrak and Via equipment on the International.

Backshophoss wrote:.........the only wrinkle was there was a mix of Amtrak and Via equipment on the International.

Yes……everything from Tempo cars to LRC Locomotives ran through between Toronto and Chicago. Here’s the VIA Tempos with an Amtrak F40 at Port Huron in Jan 1983.



VIA even acquired the exAmtrak LRC cars (they were different from VIA’s own LRCs)…..painted them in VIA colours and ran them on the International.

.

NS VIA Fan:

Mixing Amtrak and VIA equipment is what made the Chicago-Toronto International a interesting train operation...

I remember seeing a picture of a VIA LRC locomotive pulling Amtrak Superliners - this service usually would
use a locomotive from Amtrak along with VIA cars or vice versa...

There were ten Amtrak LRC cars - along with two LRC locomotives - and were used in Amtrak service on the
NEC between New Haven and Boston on a train named the "Beacon Hill" for a time in the 80s...
This equipment would eventually be phased out of Amtrak service and sent to VIA Rail Canada...

These ten LRC cars would be regularly be used on the International because they were Amtrak compatible
and their easy spotting feature were their two piece windows - VIA LRC cars use single windows...

Everyone:

For the subject of Windsor-Detroit a easy service change for connecting bus service could be to extend or
operate some Windsor Transit tunnel buses to connect both stations at convenient times to allow transfers
to be made between Amtrak and VIA trains...

The Detroit-Windsor rail tunnel has been upgraded in recent years by CP to allow larger freight cars to clear
the interior of this tunnel - and would allow all passenger equipment from both Amtrak and VIA to be used
but now knowing the problems of using this tunnel for through passenger service dedicated connecting bus
service is the cheapest and easiest alternative here to cross the border...

There is a video posted at YouTube titled "CP Rail Detroit Windsor Tunnel Enlargement" which was posted by
Brianncowan on 12/15/2012 - the length is 8:58 - explaining CP's 1994 project to enlarge this tunnel to
accomodate double stack container trains...

For the Transit Windsor Tunnel Bus Service see:
http://www.citywindsor.ca/residents/tra ... troit.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MACTRAXX