Metro North and CDOT contract

some explaining about contract...
http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut ... story.html

Numerous legislators from southwestern Connecticut communities say their constituents are unhappy with slow, unreliable service from Metro-North, and are eager to see the state look for a different contractor to run the New Haven Line and its three branches.

Redeker warned that when Connecticut pushed to change the contract in the late 1990s, it lost the arbitration case and now pays millions of dollars a year extra to the MTA.

Boucher and others say Connecticut is paying more than $70 million a year to Metro-North to run trains on Connecticut-owned tracks with no power to punish poor performance.

Well Dutch, you already know about my feelings with MNR management and how they have been running things that lead to the past 2 years worth of nightmares, but I honestly think that all of this is just talk. It would be a logistical nightmare but who knows they way the climate is in this country with breaking contracts etc, I wouldn't be surprised if it does happen but I hope it don't. I would rather see things being fixed instead of creating more issues

If it does happen CDOT has no where to go, MN has no obligation to let anyone but Amtrak on their tracks or in GCT.
Also if split happens CDOT would not be able to pay current wages or benefits so 65% of senior people would end up on Harlem Hudson with other 35% out of job and possibly starting with whom ever becomes carrier ??
This would leave CDOT with only low seniority people and a huge knowledge drain they can not manage.
Its not just simply assigning a low bidder and hope they know how to run equipment but they also need to start their own track dept, signal Dept, power Dept, etc etc etc.
It would realy be a rude awakening for Connecticut Commuters and it would not be reversible without a huge cost increase.
just my $0.02

Perhaps if it was reiterated enough time and time again in the press, in pamphlets onboard trains, etc. that attempting to go with another operator could cost CT a lot more than $70M per year with not as much guarantee(s) of as reliable service there would less rallying for putting the NHL out to bid. The fact that MNRR owns and operates all three lines that converge into GCT should always make them the preferred operator of the NHL. Try scheduling and coordinating slots, fees, etc. as the "CTrail New Haven Line", etc. when MNRR has 100% control of the Hudson and Harlem lines.

If anyone wants an example of how outsourcing an entire commuter rail system is not exactly a good idea just look at the Commuter Rail here in the Boston area. And it's not problems with the outsourcing partner/operator itself, but of the fact that there's a "middle man" of sorts between the agency and the commuters. Keolis has been racking up significant penalties for issues that are not exactly their doing. If the T ran it in-house no doubt there would HAVE to be more accountability taken on their end. At least the NHL is controlled directly by MNRR and the State Of CT so if/when something goes wrong there's no "middle man" to hide behind.

I'm shocked and surprised that dear Mr. Cameron made not one appearance in that article. Usually he's the one waving the bloody shirt about "secession" and trying to whip a couple dim-bulb Legislators into a frenzy whenever this topic periodically comes up.

Dutch, while I agree with everything you just said, you as well as I know the politicians making these remarks are all concerned about the bottom line. If they could hire monkeys tomorrow at 1/4th the current wage in all departments needed to run the operation they would. In their minds, even if the service is abysmal or about the same they're paying less for it. Look where these statements are coming from - very strong Republican influenced areas. I'm not getting into politics but most of the time these politicans complain about their glass being half empty.

Then there's the possibility they know nothing will be changed as drastic as a changing the company who currently has the operating contract for the New Haven Line. On the flip side perhaps this is yet another wake up call to keep MN on its toes.


The railroad is in a tough spot having to appease both sides of the political aisle. And that's not unique to MN but industry wide.

When politicians meddle for no good reason.. (with fair use quote):

Sens. Toni Boucher of Wilton and Tony Hwang of Fairfield, both Republicans, have introduced a bill that would force the state Department of Transportation to put the contract out to bid. Connecticut or Metro-North may seek changes this year, Boucher said.

http://www.rep-am.com/articles/2015/02/ ... 861685.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bottom line is, if CDOT went with another vendor, and it fails, there would be no easy return to Metro-North cause once you split the roster of employees.
feelings will be hurt, careers ruined and a lot of bridges burned .
The price CDOT would pay not only in dollars would triple in employees forever holding a grudge. and there is not enough butthurt cream in world for that.

Although 'butthurt' is an intangible measurement, bringing 'butthurt cream' in tanker cars and other containers, as well as "cost savings" in a bid process are tangible metrics to follow

Penny wise pound foolish. Maybe CDOT can hire Pan Am to run their trains.

This sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.

I wonder if CT is still upset with MN about two of "their cars" being in the consist of the train that derailed at DV among other incidents involving CDOT equipment.

If CT still wants another operator, there's really only one choice that MN might "play nice" with. Keolis is having problems in Boston and might end up being worse then MN. Veolia's supervision of its front-line employees IMO, leaves a lot to be desired and has resulted in at least one fatal accident.

Ken S. wrote:This sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.

I wonder if CT is still upset with MN about two of "their cars" being in the consist of the train that derailed at DV among other incidents involving CDOT equipment.

If CT still wants another operator, there's really only one choice that MN might "play nice" with. Keolis is having problems in Boston and might end up being worse then MN. Veolia's supervision of its front-line employees IMO, leaves a lot to be desired and has resulted in at least one fatal accident.

It's not going to happen for 1) the fact that Metro North is still the ruling party once you cross the state line and CDOT has a lot more to lose by ceding control of which of its trains get allowed into GCT, and 2) there literally is no one competent who could/would bid on it. Amtrak certainly isn't going to wade into that pit of snakes.

It's not going to happen. CDOT knows it's not going to happen. Gov. Malloy knows it's not going to happen. This is a zombie media story that gets kept alive by idiot legislators stepping onto a cardboard soapbox who haven't learned by now to screen their office voice mail from Jim Cameron's shrill voice. The odds of anything happening are WAY, WAY more microscopic than being reported.

We've got quite a lot of speculation here.

Can anybody tell us what the actual CDOT-MN agreement says? There's enough ambiguity here that we could drive an 8-car commuter train through. My lawyer's mind asks:
1. Who has deed to the New Haven line?
2. Who has dispatch rights AND how are they granted?
3. What type of rights does CDOT have south of New Rochelle?

A lot of folks here say that there's no way CDOT could have their own operating entity based on a few assertions: they'll never get access to GCT, MN owns the route, yadda yadda. This is a really complex issue and it's very fact intensive, certainly not one that's going to be solved by armchair lawyers. There are so many moving pieces that rules of thumb and heresay are certinaly not going to help.

Right now, we're all armchair lawyers (even I am, as I'm 500 miles away with no knowledge of the text in the agreement).

New Haven line is split in ownership from Woodlawn (cp212) to stateline (port chester) is Metro North (MTA)
from stateline to division post east of new haven and the 3 branches are state of Ct via CDOT.
Connecticut has no trackage rights west of state line, and MN has no trackage rights east of stateline, if operating contract is canceled its new game and everything would need to be re-negotiated
There is no dispatching rights, if CDOT takes over they will have to either start own dispatchers center or sub contract their territory to Amtrak, MN or 3th party.

as for copy of CDOT/MTA agreement you would need to do FOIA request to either MTA or CDOT

Think for a moment of Richard Blumenthal almost getting struck by the train on the platform at Milford station a little while back.

Most Connecticut politicians aren't very bright.

Don't expect them to make the best decisions...