MD wants FL's rejected money to replace the B&P tunnel

Read the article here.

This is IMO the ultimate "state of good repair" project for the NEC. Those tunnels are in terrible shape and were inadequate almost from the day they were completed in 1870.

In my opinion, this would probably be the single wisest investment of federal money in passenger rail that this country could possibly make. Maryland's gov. O'Malley wants money for some other things as well: three new bridges (Bush, Susquehanna, and Gunpowder Rivers) - also a very wise investment. Next is a third track between Perryville and Elkton, which would be nice but IMO not as essential as the "state of good repair" projects listed above, and then some additional projects that I would not classify as anywhere near as vitally important.

As much as I would like my home state of NC to get some of that money (we only need about $200 million to bring trains to downtown Charlotte!), even if NC gets none, I would still be quite ecstatic with the result if Maryland got everything it needed in order to replace the tunnels.

Let's hope the NEC gets some significant funding so that Amtrak can get going on these projects as well as Portal and Gateway in NJ.

As much as I'm bummed about FL rejecting the money, I'm glad to see someone's got their priorities straight.

morris&essex4ever wrote:Let's hope the NEC gets some significant funding so that Amtrak can get going on these projects as well as Portal and Gateway in NJ.

Portal bridge replacement prep work has all ready begun.

I live and work in Maryland so here are some thoughts.

We are pretty bad financially. We are looking at a huge budget gap, and the possibility of major tax hikes. I worry that the government of MD would find some way to divert this money to shore up the budget. I know it's not allowed to be used that way, but who knows what a little creative book keeping could do.

Assuming Maryland uses this money for that it's intended for, I think that replacing the tunnels would be a wise investment, assuming that the plans already exist and we wouldn't waste a billion dollars studying the project.

It would be nice to see some of the money go towards improving the Howard Street tunnel. That is another massively needed project, perhaps more so than the other bridge replacements.



I'll go with...cautious optimism on this one.

This likely just a political gesture on Gov. O'Malleys part. Maryland got $60 million from the HSIPR stimulus grants for Preliminary Engineering and NEPA for the B&P tunnel replacement. That study may not have even started yet. If the FL HSR funding is indeed returned, $1.6 billion of it is stimulus funding which has to be spent by 2016 IIRC. Start of any actual construction work for a replacement tunnel is years away. Besides replacing the B&P tunnel will reduce trip times by 2-3 minutes. Useful, yes. Needs to be replaced, yes. But not a good use of limited HSIPR funds at this point.

Replacing the 3 bridges in MD is in the NEC master plan and will be expensive. But there is a lot of NEC planning, engineering and EIS work to be done before funds can be allocated for building new bridges.

Construction of the 3rd track from Perryville MD to Elkton would fix a 2 track bottleneck and is a near term project on the NEC master plan. Putting some of HSIPR funding towards that particular project might be a worthwhile investment.

Money can actually be spent (and infrastructure built) with design-build contracts. Recall the I-35W bridge in Minneapolis. From collapse to completion in 13 months.

It is practically impossible that the money would be diverted. The republicans intend to take it away as deficit reduction, rather than reallocate it towards filling state budget gaps. And to even do that would require:
1. As folks on this board are fond of saying, 218+51+1 (or 291+67+0 which most forget to mention) - that is to say, an act of congress. This won't conceivably happen until January 20, 2013.
2. The rejected HSR money to bounce around between states continuously until, again, January 20, 2013.

orulz wrote:Read the article here.

This is IMO the ultimate "state of good repair" project for the NEC. Those tunnels are in terrible shape and were inadequate almost from the day they were completed in 1870.

In my opinion, this would probably be the single wisest investment of federal money in passenger rail that this country could possibly make. Maryland's gov. O'Malley wants money for some other things as well: three new bridges (Bush, Susquehanna, and Gunpowder Rivers) - also a very wise investment. Next is a third track between Perryville and Elkton, which would be nice but IMO not as essential as the "state of good repair" projects listed above, and then some additional projects that I would not classify as anywhere near as vitally important.

As much as I would like my home state of NC to get some of that money (we only need about $200 million to bring trains to downtown Charlotte!), even if NC gets none, I would still be quite ecstatic with the result if Maryland got everything it needed in order to replace the tunnels.

this project is an important one

Redevelopment and expansion of the Amtrak/MARC station and tracks at BWI Marshall Airport.

BWI is a bottleneck in the increasingly crowded Baltimore-Washington segment. Replacing the B&P tunnels is absolutely a good use of HSR funds. I think that, afate a 140 years, they can be considered successful infrastructure investments. the third track is also important as regionals often get stuck behind marc locals.

HBLR wrote:

morris&essex4ever wrote:Let's hope the NEC gets some significant funding so that Amtrak can get going on these projects as well as Portal and Gateway in NJ.

Portal bridge replacement prep work has all ready begun.

No it hasn't.

orulz wrote:Money can actually be spent (and infrastructure built) with design-build contracts. Recall the I-35W bridge in Minneapolis. From collapse to completion in 13 months.

To be fair, that project was on a closed stretch of road, with almost no utility interference, above ground, with footings already in place, and it had a huge amount of political support in Minnesota and at the Federal level. There was also construction underway on that road anyway (I worked for one of the subcontractors, and was at the site the day before the collapse), so the detour on MN 280 and I-94 was already planned. A sufficient amount of money can definitely get things done fast, but there has to be a tremendous political push behind it.

I do think a B&P replacement would be very useful, though good luck getting senators to support it as quickly or thoroughly as the I-35W bridge replacement.

afiggatt wrote:Besides replacing the B&P tunnel will reduce trip times by 2-3 minutes. Useful, yes. Needs to be replaced, yes. But not a good use of limited HSIPR funds at this point.

I would say that it would save a bit more than 2 to 3 minuets due to its length and both approaches to it also require trains to begin braking a bit ahead of time to make the speed restriction. But still your point is understood.

What I think is being overlooked by the people who see minimal savings is that its value is exponentially greater in capacity expansion. While it is not as long as other 2 track stretches in Northern Maryland, the speed is significantly lower. The prolonged period of time at slow speed travelling can help to equalize its amount of impact on schedules to that of those northern Maryland segments.

Also to consider is that this section of track hosts much more trains than the points north. Many MARC commuter trains terminate in Baltimore Penn Station (some now at Martin State Airport) and the trains terminating at either of those terminuses do not even make it to the northern double track sections. The two tracks from DC to New Carrollton are something to be addressed down the road but they are not as critical as the B&P tunnels because speeds are so much higher and they can shuttle trains through it pretty quickly.

Davis

The Notice of Funding Availability is out for the $2.4 billion rejected by Florida. USDOT is asking states to re-apply by April 3rd. The fact that they are accepting new applications rather than just awarding more money based on existing applications means that Maryland has a shot to apply for money to replace the B&P tunnels. Go, MD!

As an aside, the fact that the applications are due April 3rd gives my home state of NC a few weeks to sort out the issues with Norfolk Southern and apply for more. NC's $290m FY2010 application is an excellent list of the most important, lowest hanging fruit on the Raleigh-Charlotte corridor. Perhaps they can just re-submit that application.