MBTA Bus Fleet Electrification

Oh yes. It's that moment when you first realize, "wait, the non-English speaking world* does everything very differently..why is that?"

*I'm also on a mailing list about trams and electric traction in Australia/NZ. A lot of talk there about how many bad decisions just seem to keep circulating around the US/UK/Australia/NZ, especially with trams and light rail, since it's mainly just a closed loop of consultants, which totally ignore the tramway expertise of central Europe.

octr202 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:00 am The other sad "selling point" is that they need to get rid of the trolleybuses "because they can't be diverted to run subway shuttles when there's a rapid transit disruption." Yeah, because that's a good way to win over bus riders...

Umm, doesn't the Silver Line already run trolleybuses that can go off wire?

Yes, the Silver Line dual-modes are capable of off-wire operation via use of diesel engines. These date to the opening of the Silver Line tunnel and are in need of replacement.

What's being used elsewhere in the world are trolleybuses with batteries, which can operate 20+ miles between visits to wire for recharging. Most SL routes could operate as is, using the existing OHW in the tunnel for recharging (plus some ability to charge at the garage). The longer SL3 to Chelsea might need some OHW on the Chelsea busway, but all in all this is a pretty small cost (probably wouldn't need huge substation capacity since there wouldn't be that many buses on it at one time). This would mean that all Silver Line Ops out of South Station and the tunnel could be 100% electric.

What the T is proposing, however, is what they call "Enhanced Electric Hybrid." These are diesel hybrid buses, but with an "electric only" mode to be used in the tunnel. To operate off-wire, they'd still use diesel engines, which would actually be doing double-duty, both powering the bus off-wire and recharging the batteries to be used in the tunnel. The net effect is that buses on the SL1 and SL3 would actually be putting out diesel emissions in East Boston and Chelsea in order to operate emissions-free in the South Boston tunnel where electric traction infrastructure already exists.

All because the T doesn't want to maintain overhead wire.

The T is hosting a meeting on this topic - February 15, 2022 at 6 PM - 8 PM

https://www.mbta.com/events/2022-02-15/ ... use-design

The BSRA will be hosting a farewell trip on the Trackless
https://thebsra.org/bsra/what-we-do/fan ... -farewell/

I signed up to go.

Per the trip flyer, the last day of trackless service will be March 12.

What a questionable choice. TTC eliminated trolley coaches in the early 90s (cost). Charge-in-motion seems
reasonable, even as a pilot program.

As for SEPTA, wait and see in 2028 when the New Flyers have their projected lifetime due up.

I won't say scrapping the trackless wire is the stupidest thing the MBTA has ever done, but it's up there. There is so much insularity in the MBTA and many of its bad decisions arise from it.

I spent most of a week in San Francisco last year, and we rode trolleys and trolleybuses all over the place. In particular, Muni's trolleybuses were quiet, fast and flexible, with every vehicle being able to drop off the wire to go around something and pick it back up as soon as available. I couldn't even tell from aboard when the poles went up or down. Faster acceleration than diesel, freedom to operate in tunnels etc.

How do they get the poles back on the wires ?

Nothing I've read explains how they re-wire automatically. Reverse-engineering a bit, and remembering the MIT professor with the VW Trolley Bus who (with permission) tested a simple wire-finding robot back in the 70s, I'll guess:

1. Servo motors to raise/lower and steer the trolleybus poles as they're raised.
2. Optical sensors to detect the wires, and probably hold off connecting if they can't be sure which wires to aim for.
3. Manual driver controls to lower/lock the poles and request Poles Up when he thinks the situation is clear enough for the robot to do its job.
4. Automatic retraction if the poles dewire.

During our visit, I never had time to hang around near wire's end and watch. We rode the 30 Stockton in from its wireless north terminal by a big box store, but didn't catch where the wire started or when our bus picked it up. Could have been at a stop, but I didn't notice any extra-long stops.

When there is a regular "pole up" point (such as where a route normally transitions from off-wire to on-wire, simple baffles can be installed over the wire. They simply guide the poles onto the wire. The T actually has these at Silver Line Way, but doesn't use them (or does, but still requires the operator to get out and check the poles).

I would imagine that with the right cameras, you might be able to automate the pole up on plain wire, but in most cases that would probably require human intervention if there's no baffles. Again, with proper planning, this would only impact unplanned off-wire diversions.

Even the Neoplans have powered pole up/pole down capability, and if the poles unexpectedly de-wire, they automatically retract and hook. When they were new in 2004, I remember a skillful arrival at Harvard. The operator lost the poles turning into the tunnel, but he quickly saw he had a clear shot down the ramp and just let the bus roll. Had enough momentum to make it onto the platform in the station before stopping, and was able to put the poles back up while the rather full bus unloaded.

The public meeting last night revealed a lot of the T's thinking, and made it clear why they've handled this how they have. They're realizing a 50+ year dream of ridding themselves of trolleybuses, and aren't going to trip up at this point.

1. They're leveraging the Mt Auburn (Watertown) and Belmont St (Cambridge) street reconstructions to end the ETB system. MassDOT says Mt Auburn will require a 5 year removal of wire (even the connection to the 73) so they have no choice but to scrap it. They claim that by the time it's over, battery buses will be so well developed there's no reason to even consider ETB operation.

2. They also claim that the overhead wire system (OHW) is so old and decayed that it can't support in-motion charging (IMC) ETBs. I don't know of anyone outside the T who believes this, or believes their estimate of $30 million to overhaul the OHW system, but they're sticking to their guns.

3. They have no BEBs which can operate the kind of schedule blocks which the ETBs run now, but are taking a flyer that it'll be possible by 2024. Again - remember, the T doesn't care if they run diesels longer.

4. The T stated in the meeting that overhead wire is "old-fashioned technology" and that they feel that it is unsafe and dangerous to string wire over streets/right of way they don't control. In their mind, the only place other than the ETB network that fits this description is the lower E Line street running. They basically said they will oppose any continuation of transit OHW, or any new addition of it elsewhere. They flatly ruled out any extensions of OHW to make the Harvard Square system more viable as a "political non-starter." They also made it clear that they view the current OHW as a safety risk and it will be coming down ASAP after March 12th. I expect a hasty removal.

5. MassDOT/MBTA have clearly coordinated, and have bought the support of Watertown and Cambridge by saying any effort to retain the ETB system would endanger the two street reconstruction projects. I got the feeling MassDOT made sure to use those road projects as leverage to "help out" the T.

6. The two state reps for Belmont and Watertown promised to "hold the T's feet to the fire" to make sure BEBs are deployed on time in 2024, but I don't see that there will be much that can be done, since the T will have scrapped all of the ETB infrastructure.

7. The T seems to see garage chargers and batteries as "free" in that the manufacturers will maintain them. Seems shortsighted, as we all know that cost will be made up somewhere, but that's clearly where their thinking is and why they can claim that BEBs are so much cheaper. I suspect they're just hiding operational/maintenance expenses in capital costs.

octr202 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:24 am The public meeting last night revealed a lot of the T's thinking, and made it clear why they've handled this how they have. They're realizing a 50+ year dream of ridding themselves of trolleybuses, and aren't going to trip up at this point.

4. The T stated in the meeting that overhead wire is "old-fashioned technology" and that they feel that it is unsafe and dangerous to string wire over streets/right of way they don't control. In their mind, the only place other than the ETB network that fits this description is the lower E Line street running. They basically said they will oppose any continuation of transit OHW, or any new addition of it elsewhere. They flatly ruled out any extensions of OHW to make the Harvard Square system more viable as a "political non-starter." They also made it clear that they view the current OHW as a safety risk and it will be coming down ASAP after March 12th. I expect a hasty removal.

Thank You for this report. I have to wonder as someone who works near Waverly Square, if it's so dangerous how haven't we heard in the news about so many accident's involving the overhead? And why don't I see any signs warning me to be cautious while walking and driving under the overhead?

Red Wing wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:28 pm Thank You for this report. I have to wonder as someone who works near Waverly Square, if it's so dangerous how haven't we heard in the news about so many accident's involving the overhead? And why don't I see any signs warning me to be cautious while walking and driving under the overhead?

I know, right? I live near Waverley, I'm surprised I've lived this long!

It really became apparent just how much this was a classic MBTA/MassDOT decision making process - decide on the desired outcome, then line up the evidence to support. In the case of this process, where they're coming to the public very late in the game (by design), it's clear they needed just enough to convince the municipalities and the state reps/senators to go along, and they were successful.

It's going to be incumbent on advocates to make a lot of noise in 2024/2025 when BEBs don't arrive, or there are continued service reductions to accommodate not quite up to par BEBs. Unfortunately, until then I think the T has won this round.

So, how long will these so-called Battery Electric Buses have to sit at their terminals charging between runs? Charging batteries wastes a lot of power compared to wired connection. Batteries are heavy, bulky, and will still be expensive in 2024. Lithium recycling is presently in pilot-project status, with actual recovery of the lithium only now beginning.