MARC passengers take matters into own hands

I ran across a report a few days ago I was surprised no one mentioned on this board. Seems a MARC Penn Line train a week or so ago had an incident near Seabrook, where the engine failed a few car lengths short of the platform. Seems their were reports of problems about the time they left WAS but train proceeded.

What is most interesting: as the train, with no HEP in addition to no propulsion, heated up from the high temps passengers took matters into their own hands after a certain point and removed windows (emergency escape glass) and some even climbed out of the windows. They were not allowed to exit the train, even though it was on the outside track to escape the heat.

MARC issued an e-mail urging passengers to not do this again. I think the airlines could learn something from this incident.

Did I miss a report on here? Anyone know any details?

I was on the train immediately following the disabled train, we discharged pax from track 2 and went about our way, supposedly there was a mechanic on the train behind us to come try to fix things. It was headed up by an HHP-8, and the nose of the locomotive was within a car length of the platform - so close!

I've got the email that the MTA saved on my work machine, I'll post it here tomorrow if there's interest. There wasn't a mention of the incident here on the forum.

That's not the first time I've heard about passengers removing windows, they did the same thing last year iirc. When they did it then though it wasn't as big a deal apparently.

Here's MARC's email on the topic, sent on June 9 2009.

To Our Penn Line Passengers:

We sincerely apologize for yesterday's mechanical breakdown on train 530
near the Seabrook station. As those of you on the train know all too well,
train 530 became disabled shortly after departing New Carrollton. Not only
was the train unable to move, but the train lost all lighting and air
conditioning. As soon as the problem with Train 530 was reported, Amtrak
sent a mechanical technician out on the next train to attempt to repair the
train. The locomotive involved has been removed from service pending a
thorough investigation and repairs.


The MTA contracts with Amtrak to operate the Penn Line MARC trains. The
MARC operations center was notified of Train 530's problems by Amtrak just
before 5:00pm. We sent a text and email message out to all Penn Line riders
at 5:01pm, with updates following.


We understand that the temperature and conditions on board train 530 quickly
became unbearable. Many of you expressed frustration that several MARC
trains passed train 530 without stopping. The challenge of rush hour
operations is that these trains themselves are already filled to capacity
themselves and cannot take on additional passengers. While the train
stopped agonizingly short of the platform at Seabrook, it is not possible to
unload passengers at a location that is not a station stop.


When it became clear that train 530 was not going to be able to move for a
significant period of time, trains 439 and 440 were cancelled and its
equipment sent non-stop from Baltimore to Seabrook to transfer passengers.
While 439 was en route, the technician was able to get 530's locomotive
working, lights and air conditioning restored, and the train departed
Seabrook. MARC then "uncancelledd" train 440, the 6:40pm departure from
Washington.



Today, MARC management has been reviewing this incident with Amtrak. One of
our primary concerns is, based upon on your e-mails to us, that the train
crew did not provide updates to passengers. This is unacceptable and we
have told Amtrak that we expect their employees to provide regular updates
to our passengers, even when there is no new information to report. MARC's
mechanical department will also be meeting with Amtrak mechanical personnel
to determine what went wrong with the locomotive.



While yesterday's incident was, to say the least, frustrating and the
temperature uncomfortable, we do need to ask one thing of our passengers.
Please do not ever remove windows from a train, unless directed by a member
of the train crew. Doing this makes an already difficult situation
worse-once windows are removed, a train cannot proceed until the car(s) in
which the windows have been removed are unoccupied and even then the train
can only proceed at a significantly reduced speed. It is also extremely
dangerous to exit a train through the emergency windows. In addition to the
potential injury you may incur falling from the train, trains pass on
parallel tracks at speeds of up to 135 miles per hour. These trains
approach very quickly and quietly. Again, while we understand the
conditions on board train 530, removal of windows and exiting the train is
extremely dangerous and should never be done unless directed by a uniformed
Amtrak/MARC employee.


We appreciate your understanding of this matter.

I would have just opened the door
do you think the conductor could have stopped me

Arrestmespi wrote:I would have just opened the door
do you think the conductor could have stopped me

You need a conductor's key to open the door.

realtype wrote:

Arrestmespi wrote:I would have just opened the door
do you think the conductor could have stopped me

You need a conductor's key to open the door.

Not if you go inside the car and pull the emergency handle.

(I almost posted the same thing and then realized that there was a way)

I was riding this train and let me tell you, it was at least 110 degrees in there, if not more. 9 multilevels with at least 20 people standing in each car. One person went into the bathroom and stuck his head under the faucet to cool down. Not only were there no announcements made, but the conductor yelled at another rider for taking his shirt off. People were getting sick. That said, MARC can put out all of the notices about not removing the windows, but if I'm getting sick because of the heat, I'm going to remove them regardless.

HokieNav wrote:While the train
stopped agonizingly short of the platform at Seabrook, it is not possible to
unload passengers at a location that is not a station stop.

Uh, yes, yes it is possible. It's called an "emergency procedure". I assume they're trained for emergency evacuations at trackside?!? I've met people who have been evacuated *along trestles*, which is actually *seriously* dangerous, unlike getting off trackside on a ground level outside track. Subway systems have evacuated people by walking them down the subway tunnel. Again, seriously dangerous, not like this.

Apparently the people in charge of the train at the time weren't prepared to treat this situation as that class of emergency, which marks an error of judgment. Someone needs better training in identifying public health emergencies. In fact opening the doors to aerate the cars might have been all that was needed; sounds like the conductors didn't even do that.

we do need to ask one thing of our passengers.
Please do not ever remove windows from a train, unless directed by a member
of the train crew.

Absolutely pathetic, and lowers my opinion of MARC management a couple of notches. The train crew should have been knocking the windows out themselves.

realtype wrote:

Arrestmespi wrote:I would have just opened the door
do you think the conductor could have stopped me

You need a conductor's key to open the door.

Yup got one of those

neroden wrote: Uh, yes, yes it is possible. It's called an "emergency procedure". I assume they're trained for emergency evacuations at trackside?!? I've met people who have been evacuated *along trestles*, which is actually *seriously* dangerous, unlike getting off trackside on a ground level outside track. Subway systems have evacuated people by walking them down the subway tunnel. Again, seriously dangerous, not like this.

Apparently the people in charge of the train at the time weren't prepared to treat this situation as that class of emergency, which marks an error of judgment. Someone needs better training in identifying public health emergencies. In fact opening the doors to aerate the cars might have been all that was needed; sounds like the conductors didn't even do that.


Absolutely pathetic, and lowers my opinion of MARC management a couple of notches. The train crew should have been knocking the windows out themselves.

emergency evacuations are not as easy as one might think and most railroads have strict rules regarding the evacuations. Evacuations are done when there is an immediate danger on the train and are a "last resort". Doing an evacuation is dangerous regardless of the situation even if the train is on flat land if some one gets hurt and the evacuation was unnecessary the railroad would be sure to get sued. Furthermore if the crew opened up a window and some one was stupid enough to jump or fall out the railroad would once again get sued.

we do need to ask one thing of our passengers.
Please do not ever remove windows from a train, unless directed by a member
of the train crew.

Surprised they said this, passengers are allowed to evacuate themselves if and only if they are in danger (fire, ext) and there is no crew around to assist, then they are allowed to open doors and/or windows

What the passengers did is called 'self-evacuation'. Really on a train of 600 people a train crew of 2-3 cannot really stop people from leaving the train. You basically call the dispatcher and hope you can get a hold on the other tracks before someone gets killed.

VRE has run dark trains a few times when the HEP failed and they unable to get it working, which happens rarely.

According to CSX rules passengers are not allowed onto the tracks (obviously for safety reasons), so if a train breaks down in the middle of nowwhere they are stranded until the train is fixed or antother train comes to push them.

A few thoughts:

1. There's a big difference between "rules" and the reality of a situation sometimes.

2. RearofSignal is right- is a crew of 2-3 going to stop a large number people who are intent on getting off a broken down train? Are they going to hold a gun on them? Especially in a place like Seabrook, where they can see out the window exactly where they are. (Not in the middle of no where as davinp refers to) I seem to recall a train in Mich or Ill. several years ago stranded with a timed-out crew stopped within sight of a station in the snow. Didn't some of them finally call the local 911?

3. People are becoming less and less tolerant of what they consider B.S. situations (No matter what WE know the situation to be) and are more likly to take matters into their own hands then ever, even if it IS stupid and dangerous. You watch one time in the future when a plane spends 7 or 8 hours on the tarmac- someones going to go out an emergency exit and slide. I just think it will happen. (I spent 8 hours on the ground coming back from England one time- it crossed my mind)

4. I suppose that a person on a plane could face some federal charges- interfering with a planes operation, or something like that. For the lawyers here: is there a similar charge for a train- federal or perhaps in state law?

matthewsaggie wrote:3. People are becoming less and less tolerant of what they consider B.S. situations (No matter what WE know the situation to be) and are more likly to take matters into their own hands then ever, even if it IS stupid and dangerous. You watch one time in the future when a plane spends 7 or 8 hours on the tarmac- someones going to go out an emergency exit and slide. I just think it will happen. (I spent 8 hours on the ground coming back from England one time- it crossed my mind)

People have been taken to hospital with serious illness due to heat exhaustion when stuck on the tarmac in planes (which rarely have functional air conditioning on the tarmac). Several dozen people in one famous case in New York City. They obviously *should* have gone out the emergency exits, as they would have been much safer. Heatstroke is *serious*.

If there is a threat of heat exhaustion, it is absolutely the correct thing to get out of the oven. If the train conductors are not trained to recognize this and open the windows, then the passengers absolutely ought to be opening the windows -- oh, and passengers have a perfect right to sue for *wrongful death* if someone dies of heatstroke because they weren't let out of an overheated vehicle.

We know for a fact that the conductors should have been opening the windows, but didn't. MARC's letter is mind-bogglingly ignorant, and will lead passengers to *assume* that the conductors don't know what they're doing and have been instructed to risk passengers' lives -- which is a bad thing, because normally conductors do know what they're doing are are trying to protect passengers' lives.