Keystone station/tower sign survivors?

RR Chef,

We have a cast iron Keystone whistle sign in our collection, though not currently on display. To the best of my knowledge it was donated to the Museum from Long Island. A recent conversation that took place between a veteran engineer and a trainee (with the Keystone "W" sign on the table) included the observation that vandals could not knock over the old cast iron and heavy-wall pipe stantions used years ago, like they do with the wooden "W" signs today.

de Don N2QHV

Don
Thank you for your reply. I'm going to an auction at the end of the month in Pa. that has several lots of keystone whistle signs. However they are listed as being aluminum. I was fairly certain that the signs on the LIRR were cast iron which you confirmed. I'll have to inspect them before bidding but they should be a nice addition to my collection eventhough they are more than likely PRR. I have put the link to the auction's online catalog below. No LIRR but lots of PRR, B&O, C&O, WM and other East Coast Fallen Flags.
http://maurerail.com

Here's one in use:



Dave Keller

The straight story - the honest truth- about the Keystone whistle posts, is as follows:
I was in high school, and my father was Ass't. Supervisor of Track. I found out that the Keystone whistle posts were being replaced so I asked my father for one. He came home with two, both of which are still in my possession. I asked him what was happening to the rest and he said they were going to scrap. I asked him to delay the scrapping. Would the railroad consider donating them to the LIST NRHS? He agreed, if they got out a letter of request asap. I believe it was Rod Dirkes, but it might have been Ron Ziel, who did wrote the letter and a crew of members ( but not me) went down to Holban and emptied the gondola of the Keystones. Some were broken, but most in good shape. The LIST NRHS sold them to members for - get ready to faint- $15 apiece. I got a thank you from the group. There were plenty of those whistle posts available at the time.
Another adventure of that type had nothing to do with me, but when the heavyweight parlors went to scrap, the LIST NRHS got permission to strip them of memorabilia, including brass baggage racks, chairs, and other fittings. Those too, were sold as collectables to members, and for very low prices. I never got any of those items, simply because I had no sense of need for one.
I think we failed to get all the old MP54 whistles, but had we been smart, we might have shot for them.
Anyway, that's the true story.

A few comments here...

First, on the Keystone whislte posts, let the buyer beware. Many train show dealers started making replicas of the original and sold them off as the real thing. If you see one on eBay or at a trainshow, it may not be the real McCoy.

An interesting story about the 44 number plate pictured above. It was donated to RMLI about 6 or 7 years ago by George Penny of Penny Lumber in Mattituck. He said it was sitting in his attic for years.

Best I can tell how it may have gotten there is No. 44 was involved in a rollover incident in Aquebogue. I don't have the date handy, but there are pictures of in in Steel Rails to the Sunrise. I have not seen any pictures of the 44 taken after this with the round number plate, so it may have been removed on site in Aquebogue and somehow made it to Mattituck.

44 received the Keystone style number plate as all of the other G5s later.

Jay

I was concerned about the possiblity of fake keystones especially since the auction list them as being aluminum. Does anyone know if the PRR made keystone whistle signs in aluminum?

To the best of my knowledge, they were made out of iron partly so they were not easily carried away. They would alos have no scrap value to theives. The PRR certainly had enough iron at their disposal. It's only my opinion, but I strongly doubt an aluminium one is real. The several whistle posts as well as other signs on the LI from that era were always iron.

Clem

The whistle posts are cast iron and weigh about 50 pounds each. There are two distinctive features about them. Some have numbers cast right into the back of them, others have what looks like a metal tag fused to the plate itself, though I doubt it's a tag. I have one of each. I am currently having ten miniatures cast in aluminum for a live steam railroad here in Maine. I guarantee, PRR never cast any in anything other than iron. You can download the plans and measurements for the original plates from one of the PRR sites on the web. There were also plates cast with an "R" in them, same style, to indicate bell ringing. I never have seen those on LIRR, even in photos.

Check Rob's PRR Page online for great diagrams and plans of MOW structures and signs. This is a museum gold mine.

I know where a PRR whistle marker is out here in Southern California. It (and a J-1a Keystone) rests on the floor of a hobby shop collecting dust. I inquired a few years ago about purchasing them both but I was given their usual responce of "not for sale." This hobby shop will sell but one needs to bring a wheelbarrow full on money and maybe then they will talk. I may need to take a ride into Passedina to see if they will consider donating to RMLI or Twin Forks but I really doubt they will.
Another way to tell if something is a reproduction casting is if the mold was made from an original then the reproduction if cast in metal will be smaller due to shrinkage of the cooled metal. I believe cast iron shrinks around 5% (maybe more) so an original mold is what ever percentage larger than the finished product. I too doubt that whistle markers would be cast in aluminum as this was once a very precious metal (the Washington Monument is capped in Aluminum becouse of it's high value) and then during the 1930s it was a "wonder" metal.

Richard:

The "tag fused to the back" is the impression of the pattern number tag, usually a stamped metal strip (like a Dymo plastic label) attached to the wood pattern used for making the iron casting.

The aluminum signs are indeed fakes, and should be designated as such (and priced accordingly).

My living room holds 3 parlor chairs from LIRR parlors (obtained from Mr. Dirkes' widow), and the Pullman parlor "Wallingford" at Valley RR in CT was fitted out with LIRR parlor chairs purchased from LIST in 1975 (when it was restored).

Wow. So these these aluminum keystones would make good ashtrays. I'll take a look at them at the auction and let everyone know the story.

Richard
I have an MP-54 whistle which I bought over 10 years ago for $125. I haven't seen one for sale since. Every New Year's Eve, I hook it up to my air compressor and let it blow for a good 5 minutes. Scares the crap out of the neighbors eveytime!

Heres a link for the PRR standard drawing from 1927 for these cast Whistle and Ring Posts:

http://prr.railfan.net/standards/standa ... an=78408-B


Clem

Clem:

Nice find!!

Dave

P.S.

At the risk of sounding like a total idiot . . . .

What is a "ring" post? Notification to ring the locomotive's bell?

I never saw them in use on the LIRR. Have you?

Dave

I would assume that the ring post would before reaching a station's platform? Were these ever used on LI?

Here's something interesting from that same PRR site above in Clem's post. Make your own Keystone Station sign! I've used this for modeling purposes and it works well. Have fun!
http://prr.railfan.net/makesign.html