Kenya- Uganda Railway

David Benton wrote:

george matthews wrote: I believe there is a plan sponsored by China to rebuild this line at Standard Gauge. I assume the Chinese have something in mind to their advantage.

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Copper , I believe.

The main source of copper is the "Copper Belt" which straddles Zambia and the Congo. In colonial times it was shipped out through Lourenco Marques (Maputo), or through the Belgian Congo to the Atlantic. There is very little copper in East Africa. They are up to something but I don't know what it is.

Yes, George. You have enough material for several very interesting books.

This is to give a factual idea of passenger railroading in my small portion of North America. After I sent in the post about railroads here not running with Mussolini's precision, I went in to my station and looked at the emails that had accumulated since the day before. An Amtrak train had broken down a second time, this time in the tunnel under the Hudson river. Trains behind it were preparing to reverse out, to use the other tunnel to NY. I don't know how it all turned out. Then, a little while later, listening to my scanner, I heard one of the trains to NY on my line telling the the dispatcher about trouble getting power, probably an ALP46 electric. Here's Transit's email to the public about it. https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=w ... 4840539c10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The train got going, fifteen late, and then got held at my station another ten minutes to wait for an electrician to meet it and ride it into NY.
About 1:25 in the afternoon, a customer trying to be nice, said that she had noticed the trains running on time. A train from NY was pulling in and I told her it was the 12:59 train. She retracted her statement. That train had a medical emergency and had to wait for an ambulance. Things aren't always that bad on my line, but system wide in New Jersey they are.
Our low, low fares: Occasionally when I quote them to a customer, he'll decide to drive in, and driving isn't cheap either.

I would think 25 minutes late would be departing early in Africa, and half of the passengers would miss the train .
I can't talk ,I used to quite often catch the overnight Northerner train to Wellington early in the morning( 6a.m schedule ).If I slept in I'd head down to the station at 7a.m or so , and still be able to catch it. then one time it was on time, and I had to tear my ticket up .

As someone who has lived in Africa for much of the the last 40 years I would certainly agree with George that Africa was not better off under colonialism. I currently live in Kenya and work in South Sudan, with trips to South Africa two or three times a year to fire steam locos there. I would also question whether Africa is particularly dangerous. Obviously there are danger spots, there is crime in some major cities (as there is in major cities in the USA), and there are some new challenges which seem to be part of global dynamics (eg recent terrorism in Kenya), but life in much of Africa is peaceful, laid back and friendly. Public transport on the roads can be dangerous, however, and I do my best to avoid travelling in buses and matatus. Although I used to ride a motorbike in rural Sudan three decades ago, I wouldn't get on a boda boda now!

Railways in Africa have suffered in recent decades. In part that's also due to global dynamics: remember how British Rail was scaled back in the '60s, how the US passenger system was down-sized and how there was massive under-investment in rail in many western countries in an era when road transport appeared to reign supreme? Africa has been very slow to recover from that, but there are encouraging new signs, such as the order for a thousand new locomotives and the modernisation of some traffic flows such as coal in South Africa. Kenya has the prospective new railway line, as well as a new interest in commuter rail. There are also interesting initiatives in some north African countries, which I don't follow too closely.

One legacy of colonialism was that colonial railway lines were built basically to service the flow of exports, as exploitation of local resources was one of the main reasons for colonialism in the first place. They were not designed to service internal trade nor to move people around between urban centres, hence they contributed little to post-colonial development and that might be a contributory reason why they have been neglected.

Cheers!
John

David Benton wrote:I would think 25 minutes late would be departing early in Africa...

They tell a story in Sudan about a town where the train was scheduled to arrive twice a week, but was always many hours late. One day, people hear the train in the distance and it is early! The mayor rushes out, gathers the police band and some local dignitaries, the ordinary people flock to the station, and there is a huge and festive welcoming committee. When the driver steps down from his loco they congratulate him on being early. He looks bewildered and replies, "No, this is last Tuesday's train; I'm three days late!"

Mind you, the perception of "African time" is not always true. I recall that during the civil war in Sudan, in the 1980s, we had a humanitarian relief committee in the town of Malakal, chaired by the local southern Sudanese bishop and comprising various government officials and others, plus two representatives from European aid agencies. The two Europeans (an Englishman and an Irishman, which sounds like the beginning of a joke) always came late because they assumed the Sudanese would be late. One day the bishop took me aside and said, "John, you know how to talk to these white people. Please tell them that we are fed up with waiting for them; we're always ready to start on time and they always come late!" However generally Africans are very relaxed about time. I've often heard it said, "Europeans have the watches, but we have the time". It can be very frustrating when you first arrive here, but once you get used to it, it's fine, and it takes a lot of pressure off you.

Cheers!
John

Thanks John. Yes the perception of time changes as you move from different cultures, and different parts of the country.
When I arrived back in NZ from my USA trip a couple of years ago , I couldnt get over how relaxed and slow moving everyone was at Auckland Airport. And that's our biggest one . I used to live on the Coromandel peninusla , with the dreaded "Coromandel time".
I had several German and Swiss friends , and they took a long time to adjust .Some couldn't, a medical professional friend just can't get used to kiwis wandering into appointments 10 -15 minutes late. Then there's "Island time", which cover s most of the south pacific islands , and probably depends on the fishing and the weather. It is very frustrating if your trying to organise meetings etc.
I traveled in West and North Africa, I don't think i ever felt in danger in West Africa. ( apart from on the roads) I knew Lagos was dangerous , and arrived at night , but found a taxi driver I trusted , and it was fine.
I did have some nasty experiences in Morrocco, the rest of North Africa was fine.
South America was far more dangerous, you could never relax there.

I found Morocco interesting. I didn't travel a lot there but I went to visit a musical project in the north. I took the train from Tangier to a town in the edge of the Berber area. The train was clearly composed of second hand French carriages. For me it was a strange experience to be travelling in Africa in a European train. But I did see some much older carriages in Tangier. I don't know if they were in use for local trains but they did seem very old. I thought about travelling to Algeria but then as now it was very dangerous to go there and I don't think the trains were running.

But I found the journey to Paris interesting when I took the Puerto da Sol from Madrid and the connecting train from Algeciras. It was before Tunnel had opened so I returned via Cherbourg and took the ferry from there.

As for Kenya-Uganda I think the historic problem was that the trains were really designed for the convenience of the European settlers and so there is not a large population of Africans who value the trains. In colonial days most Africans regarded the trains as alien, and found them expensive to travel, and disliked the European ticket examiners who travelled there. I remember meeting them when I first travelled on the trains in 1965. Dropping the train to Kisumu therefore has not aroused the opposition that it should have. Nevertheless the train was always busy when I travelled to Nairobi. It may be a sign of trouble to come indicating possible hostility to the Nilotic speakers in the Kisumu area.

George, I think you're right about the historic perceptions of the railways in Kenya. I think it's even more true in South Africa, where the trains played a role in the apartheid system, and where employment on the railways was pretty much reserved for whites (the majority of them being Afrikaaners; one old steam driver who I fired to was one of only three English-speaking drivers out of over 270 in the large shed where he was based back in the days of steam and apartheid).

I think the axing of the Kisumu trains probably has a variety of reasons, not least how quick and cheap road transport is at the moment, despite being dangerous. There are some good bus companies, such as Easy Coach. The train fare would probably have to be very cheap indeed to lure people away from the roads, and that might be uneconomical. A lot of repairs and maintenance would have to be done to the permanent way, and there's still a shortage of motive power, with freight being a priority due to the huge backlog in Mombasa port. As I understand it RVR never really wanted the passenger concession anyway, but were forced to accept it as part of the freight deal, so they never put much effort into the passenger side of operations.

I can't add anything to these illuminating posts. In North America trains largely can't compete with air lines for passenger travel, and trucks for much of the freight. Freight trains have to stop every hundred miles or so to change crews, and be classified (the train taken apart and put back together again.) Trucks just motor on through to the consignee. They are governed by hours of service laws, as are trains, but don't comply.

I must be part kiwi...(the late Philip Martin.)
On NJ Transit, and possibly other American railroads, besides the problem of trains being late, we also have the problem of them leaving a few minutes ahead of the published schedule time, if the crew feels like it. Some crews have no regard for the public in this matter. I've been screaming about it for years, but still happens. I wish we had a station master on the platform to give the the signal to leave, as they did in Germany when I was there. It was Deutsche Bundesbahn in those days. I left all my belongings on a train at Fulda one time, when we had a half hour layover and took a walk to see the cathedral. The train was pulling out when I got back, so I got the next train and got all my belongings (except a half leter of milk) back at the next stop. Honesty. Don't try that in the US. Don't even put your bags down in some stations here.

Another late train. Here's a video of police assisting passengers leaving an NJ Transit train, one of our multi level cars. This is borrowed from the NJ Transit forum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5ap7oO ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

johnthefireman wrote:George, I think you're right about the historic perceptions of the railways in Kenya. I think it's even more true in South Africa, where the trains played a role in the apartheid system, and where employment on the railways was pretty much reserved for whites (the majority of them being Afrikaaners; one old steam driver who I fired to was one of only three English-speaking drivers out of over 270 in the large shed where he was based back in the days of steam and apartheid).

I think the axing of the Kisumu trains probably has a variety of reasons, not least how quick and cheap road transport is at the moment, despite being dangerous. There are some good bus companies, such as Easy Coach. The train fare would probably have to be very cheap indeed to lure people away from the roads, and that might be uneconomical. A lot of repairs and maintenance would have to be done to the permanent way, and there's still a shortage of motive power, with freight being a priority due to the huge backlog in Mombasa port. As I understand it RVR never really wanted the passenger concession anyway, but were forced to accept it as part of the freight deal, so they never put much effort into the passenger side of operations.

I was aware of the dangers of the road though it didn't always affect me. I preferred the train, partly because it saved me a day of travelling as I could sleep one night. (And lets face it, I like travelling by train). Probably at the time we are thinking of (1970s) the colonial traditions of service hadn't finally expired. Maybe I have low standards, but I enjoyed the first class sleeping accomodation, though after all these years I am sure they would have needed to buy new carriages. I presume they didn't, so by now their condition would be very poor. They could renew the Mombasa trains for the tourists but Kisumu has never been advertised as a tourist destination - though it should be.

David Benton wrote:I would think 25 minutes late would be departing early in Africa, and half of the passengers would miss the train .
I can't talk ,I used to quite often catch the overnight Northerner train to Wellington early in the morning( 6a.m schedule ).If I slept in I'd head down to the station at 7a.m or so , and still be able to catch it. then one time it was on time, and I had to tear my ticket up .

In the 1970s I found that the trains I took frequently - from Kisumu to Nairobi and return - used to depart very close to the timetable and usually arrive at the advertised time. Delays were unusual

I haven't travelled on the sleeper between Mombasa and Nairobi for about 15 years now. Even then in the 1990s it was a shadow of its former glory, but at least some of the faded glory was still visible. Bunks and bedding were OK, the latter in need of a little patching but always clean and fresh. I found myself sharing compartments with interesting folk, including one of the curators of the snake park with a cold box full of specimens; not live ones, fortunately. Food was still reasonably good, served by waiters from big dishes and trays. It was great when they had bread and butter pudding for dessert as most of the non-British tourists wouldn't eat it so we Britons always got second helpings. In those days the armed railway police who accompanied the train carried only revolvers, not AK47s. Once I found myself in a carriage where the dynamos worked but the batteries didn't, so we had light whenever the train was moving, but as we slowed to a stop the lights dimmed and died. It was an uncertain way of travelling, though. We once got stopped at Mazeras due to a derailed freight train ahead, and we all had to get out and take matatus the rest of the way. We then realised how much quicker road transport was, as we were in Mombasa in a very short time whereas the train would still have taken several hours even without the derailment. But like you, George, I used to enjoy taking the train because it effectively gave me an extra day in Mombasa at each end of my sojourn. At that time the train was daily; I believe it is now only three or four nights a week. Now when we go to Mombasa in a big group I drive my safari Land Cruiser which can seat eight people comfortably. When it's just my wife and me we fly on Kenya Airways. I can coax her onto luxury trains (like South Africa's Premier Classe between Jo'burg and Cape Town, which she thoroughly enjoyed), but sadly not onto the Nairobi-Mombasa service!

Jo-burg. Learned a new word. Here in New Jersey we have P-burg for Phillipsburg, E-port for Elizabeth Port, and C-paw for Communipaw, the Jersey Central's terminal in the Hudson River.