Keeping trains and platforms clean

I just wanted to vent a frustration and pet peeve I've had with MN since I've been riding lately.

As a rail fan and in an effort to be a responsible patron, I clean up after myself when I leave the train (I do so anyway since I'm not a slob). However; my pet peeve is that there are announcements constantly asking people to pick up there trash and throw them in the appropriate receptacles etc. yet when you're in GCT, sometimes you have to walk down two to three cars to get to the nearest trash can. I often laugh because I find it very ironic. Sometimes I'll get to the train really early after stopping off at “Hot and Crusty” or something and I'll finish whatever I'm eating before the train leaves. Rather than hold on to the bag for 30 minutes or risk forgetting it on the train, I'll walk onto the platform and look for the trash can. Of course none are within a close enough distance where I can comfortably leave all of my stuff in the seat while I throw my trash out.

To make a long story short, anybody else notice this and would it be hard for MN to put more cans out on the platforms at GCT I would say five cans per platform, 1 for every pair of MUs.

I give other people a benefit of the doubt in that they leave their trash behind for that reason. I don't notice this problem (location/number of trash cans) at other stations but I do at GCT. I also raise this issue because it looks as if someone isn't doing their job in cleaning the trains when they are supposedly being serviced and I'm sure a number of people here would agree. It turns me off to see somebody's half eaten bagel or half cup of coffee under the seat in front of me. Surely MN has the fleet capacity to rotate the sets in such a way that each set can receive the proper attention it needs in terms of cleaning inside the car.

I was on SEPTA the other day and I heard people (didn't sound like they were from NY) who were bashing MN for the condition of its M1 fleet obviously (and hopefully such will not be the case with the M7) and as much as I wanted to intervene, I couldn't. I couldn't come to the defense of MN this time because I had to agree with them and I'd defend MN in a minute but I have to have something to work with, lol. To add to that, these comments I heard did not appear to be coming from people you would expect to see posting in anyone of these forums.

NJ Transit's predecessors used to have car cleaners who worked Dover yard, and other endpoints. They would board the train pick up cups, papers, bagels, wipe down spills, etc.

When I commuted to Dover, they would occasionally board in Denville, tidy up on the way to Dover, and then exit to work another train. The real work was done overnight with mops, and window cleaning

I think they disappeared about 1980 or so.

I think another part of the problem is that because there is no place to throw garbage inside the car itself, many people will simply put it on or under the seat or wherever it can be considered out of sight and out of mind. If you think about Amtrak, you always see people walking to the front or rear of the car to throw out their trash because they know the trash can is there and easy to get to. Lack of a garbage can on the train itself is not an excuse for the people that can't carry a newspaper, or empty can off the train but might be one of the reasons there is so much trash left.

Putting to many trash cans on platforms creates a security risk.

DutchRailnut wrote:Putting to many trash cans on platforms creates a security risk.

So you all ride like pigs in a cattle car all in the name of security.
The trains were dirty twenty years ago when I was still working there.
Noel Weaver

MNCR is still making a big effort to keep the trains clean, the pigs however think they get maid service for the ticket price.
Compared to 20 years ago the trains are much cleaner.

DutchRailnut wrote:Putting to many trash cans on platforms creates a security risk.

It doesn't have to be that way. In addition to making clear or see-through cans (not much different than what MN currently uses for newspapers at the end of the platforms), the MTA could also consider modifying current trash receptacles to make the openings smaller.

This would make it much harder for a terrorist to drop a bomb in a can. The USPS has done this in several locations and it seems to work (i.e. the facility has the same amount of trash cans and they are happy with the reduced risk of misuse)

Nester

MNCR did not make those decisions but people from homeland security.

DutchRailnut wrote:MNCR did not make those decisions but people from homeland security.

TSA/DHS does not run the MTA or control Grand Central. They suggested it, and the MTA implemented it.

I just think it is odd that they don't want to add more trash cans, but never removed that huge newspaper basket -- which is more likely to explode and kill a commuter digging in there for a free copy of the NY Times (even though they are not supposed to -- by regulation).

The real issue (for me at least) is the idea that the MTA would once again fail to implement a solution that could save them money (it seems like it would be quicker and cheaper to empty more platform cans than it would to have a car cleaner sweeping and picking up trash in every car).

Once again, the riders and taxpayers in New York are left to pay for their failure to innovate. For all the things that MN gets right, they are still a subsidiary of the MTA, which guarantees that they will screw up quite often.

Nester

Adding more trash cans will not change the selfish actions of the riding public. You have never really watched them have you. As they finish one section of the NY Times it is tossed in the aisle or the floor in front of them.They leave their food remnants on the seats,coffee cups on the floor,banana and orange peels on top of the floor heaters.They put their snow and or muddy shoes on the seats.They are already writing on and slicing the seats of the M7's. I will not even go into what they do to the restrooms.
Failure to innovate? More trash cans is an innovation?
Every train that is not making an immediate turn is met by at least one car cleaner in GCT.It doesn't take long to sweep through the cars picking up the trash. And we can all worry a little less not having to be concerned about surpises left for us in innovative trash cans.

grabber wrote:Adding more trash cans will not change the selfish actions of the riding public. You have never really watched them have you. As they finish one section of the NY Times it is tossed in the aisle or the floor in front of them.They leave their food remnants on the seats,coffee cups on the floor,banana and orange peels on top of the floor heaters.They put their snow and or muddy shoes on the seats.They are already writing on and slicing the seats of the M7's. I will not even go into what they do to the restrooms.

I am not going to pretend that all commuters are considerate people -- because we all know that they are not. But if you expect me to believe that adding more trash cans would not reduce the amount of trash that is left on the trains, I think (your) cynicism does you more harm than good.

In a perfect world, there would be more than one trash receptacle in each car. Space limitations clearly prevent that. So MN, as an organization, should try to encourage people to dump their junk when they leave the train. Two or three overflowing garbage cans on a platform is not the way to do this.

grabber wrote:Failure to innovate? More trash cans is an innovation?
Every train that is not making an immediate turn is met by at least one car cleaner in GCT.It doesn't take long to sweep through the cars picking up the trash. And we can all worry a little less not having to be concerned about surpises left for us in innovative trash cans.

You're taking my statement out of context. DutchRailnut said that that adding more cans is a security risk. I question how true that is -- other organizations subject to federal oversight seem to have eliminated this problem without difficulty, and there is no reason why MN (or any other MTA organization) could not do the same. The innovation would be in making the cans safer. The only security downside to adding more cans (that are safer) is that the dogs (and their human handlers) have to search more cans in the event of a threat.

Besides, what makes you think you're any safer on the train? You think a terrorist could not hide a bomb under a seat?

Nester

This is a prime example of people being "raised in a barn".

I mean really, how difficult is it to carry your used cup or food waste to a trash can? Gee, you might have to walk with it for thirty seconds to a minute...

How about the MTAPD handing out a littering citation to people who leave their crap on the train? Even better, how about a citation that could be cleared by picking cleaning one car?

[:-) About as likely as three tracks to NWP...]

And as to the garbage cans, the risk is unfortunately quite real - there are almost none in London, given the IRAs fondness for leaving little "surprises" in them. Not really sure what the solution is to this.

boston774 wrote:

[:-) About as likely as three tracks to NWP...]

That is the plan..

Really?

I was just making a joke - that is very interesting. It would seem to be a quite longterm, and extremely expensive undertaking. It would make a huge boost in capacity, though.

My surprise is because I've never heard this before, or seen in it the MTA literature.