It's Time for the NEC to be its own Regional Operation

Gentlemen,

Reading everyone's comments in the Five Year Plan and the Springfield to New York threads, you have collectively convinced me:

PROPOSED: That a tranpsortation friendly congressman initiate legislation to break off the NorthEast Corridor from the Amtrak national grid...

... that the NEC passenger rail region be re-formed as a separate passenger rail company, operated under an Interstate Compact.

... that the Congress will appropriate sufficient funds for a one-time equipment buy to obtain "best practical practice" passenger equipment (as opposed to "best desired practice" equipment).

... that the several states where this company operates will underwrite capital repairs and operating costs.

You gentlemen have convinced me. We west of Pittsburgh do not understand your operating populations, practices, and challenges. You can make rational routing decisions which will alleviate auto traffic on the I-95 corridor. You don't need Congressional support from throughout the Nation; you can make a profit working with Guilford et al.

I wish you well.

John

Make it west of Harrisburg and you got a deal.

I hear what Mr. Perkowski is saying, although I cannot say for sure that I agree with his conclusion. I can certainly understand why folks outside the NEC would go along with Mr. Perkowski's proposal.

Contrary to popular myth, Amtrak's NEC is by far its worst performing unit from a financial perspective, and in recent years Amtrak's disproportionate investments in the NEC have come at great expense to the rest of the system. I have no doubt whatsoever that once freed up of the NEC's capital expense requirements, what remains of Amtrak's off-NEC system would perform much better financially. The question I have, however, is whether its constituant political units would be willing to support it.

Amtrak really needs to remain a national system.
What is really needed is a federal/state/local but especially federal
commitment to do the right thing regarding passenger corridors all over
the country.
What comes to my mind besides the northeast is Florida, Texas, Chicago,
California, Ohio and the Pacific northwest. The northeast should be
expanded to include the Carolinas, Florida to include Georgia and probably
west to New Orleans, Texas east to New Orleans and north to Oklahoma.
You see my point, in addition to nationwide overnighters, we also need a
decent corridor operation all over our country.
Breaking away the northeast from the rest of Amtrak would just create
another bureaucracy which no one needs right now.
Amtrak has the means and the will to run a quality passenger service,
they just need some financial and other help from all sources, the sooner
the better.
Noel Weaver

Amtrak really needs to remain a national system.
What is really needed is a federal/state/local but especially federal
commitment to do the right thing regarding passenger corridors all over
the country.
What comes to my mind besides the northeast is Florida, Texas, Chicago,
California, Ohio and the Pacific northwest. The northeast should be
expanded to include the Carolinas, Florida to include Georgia and probably
west to New Orleans, Texas east to New Orleans and north to Oklahoma.
You see my point, in addition to nationwide overnighters, we also need a
decent corridor operation all over our country.
How many people make connections in various places between an
Amtrak train and a locally operated commuter train? Is it possible to get
information from Amtrak agents about commuter connections?, it might
be but more often you would not be able to get an actual schedule.
Imagine going into New York from Florida and not being able to get any
information on how to get to Springfield, Albany or other locations in the
northeast. Maybe more separate ticketing involved, it could be a real
nightmare for the passenger.
Breaking away the northeast from the rest of Amtrak would just create
another bureaucracy which no one needs right now.
Amtrak has the means and the will to run a quality passenger service,
they just need some financial and other help from all sources, the sooner
the better.
Noel Weaver

I suppose the NEC INFRASTRUCTURE could be spun off from Amtrak into a separate agency, but to what purpose, to improve Amtrak financials?

It's a zero-sum game. If Amtrak were to no longer have to spend $500 million a year on NEC maintenance, that does not necessarily mean Congress would provide that money for Amtrak to spend elsewhere. It would still need those funds to maintain the NEC.

Get it from the states? Perhaps, but the states have parochial agendas, i.e. regional / commuter service. Through service to Boston and Washington is a secondary concern. Thus for kicking in more money for NEC maintenance they are likely to demand greater control and that could mean sticking Acela Express trains behind the Trenton local. Anyone doubting this should experience riding Amtrak between New Rochelle and New Haven over Metro North track.

Hence, there is no real rationale for separating the NEC from the rest of Amtrak. What is needed is new, sustaining revenue sources as well as capital investment to enable Acela Express to do what it's capable of: 3:00 NYP-BOS, 2:15 NYP-WAS.

We need a separate strategic plan just for that.

Splitting the NEC from Amtrak would be bad for both the NEC and Amtrak.
As we on this forum know, neither Democratic nor Republican administrations have been kind to Amtrak. One thing that keeps it in funds is that it's agreed by all sides that, without the NEC, highway traffic in the NE would grind to a halt. (The NEC is the only place in the country where a passenger railroad plays such a vital role.) Also, the NEC starts in Washington. Even if Congresscritters don't ride it, they may realize that their personal driving to, from or around the Capital would be adversely impacted by NEC trouble.
If the NEC is taken out of Amtrak, it will inevitably get less Federal money. And, the proposal that started this thread makes no mention of funding the massive infrastructure work that the NEC needs. New cars are nothing compared to new Baltimore tunnels, new bridges, etc. The states, being broke, and being impacted by various cuts in Federal aid, just won't fund this kind of infrastructure repair.
Sometimes it's proposed that long distance trains be abandoned by Amtrak, and that Amtrak concentrate on short and medium length corridors. The problem there is that those long distance trains engender a lot of congressional support.
I believe that the only way Amtrak can survive is to remain a national network, including the NEC and the long distance trains. If pieces get chopped off, its support in congress will drop and it will eventually be starved to death. And, any partial replacements (such as an interstate compact for the NEC) will provide even less adequate support than Amtrak gets now.

I have been suggesting this for years... it is about time some of you idiots wake up and smell the coffee

"If the NEC is taken out of Amtrak, it will inevitably get less Federal money. And, the proposal that started this thread makes no mention of funding the massive infrastructure work that the NEC needs."

as I have said for YEARS

it is not the federal government's obligation to subsidize the interstate commuting activities of people in and around the northeast

that part of the country drains too large of a proportion of amtrak's money via the NEC

let the states pay for it

let the users who actually USE it pay for it (indirectly through taxes)

it is time you northeast bums begin to pay your own way

[quote="crazy_nip
it is time you northeast bums begin to pay your own way[/quote]


The preceding message was brought to you by a resident of the "Land of the Hanging Chad."

BTW: Did y'all get your voting crayons yet so you can color in Bush's picture on the ballot?

Amazing. No one here even bothered to ask "Is this satire?"

Heavens, yes. 100% satire, straight from the Heartland.

Now, some of us out here in Flyover Country do tend to look at the folks in the Northeast and go "Boy, they are pole vaulting over mouse turds", but we also watch and listen.

Even so, those who were in on this from the beginning (and they know who they are), knew this was meant to be satire.

Now, as we look at the National Railroad Passenger Corporation, I remind members we need to hit our Congressfolk and Senators on Authorization Legislation going forward. Right now, absent that Authorization Act, all it takes is one committee saying "no authorization, thus no appropriation" and Amtrak shuts down at the turn of a fiscal year.

John

Mr. Nip, your logic has a hole the size of the Everglades. New York and New Jersey pay way more than their share of Federal taxes. In 2002, New York and New Jersey paid much more in Federal taxes than they got back in aid, while Florida got back 99% of what it paid. (New York got back 87% of what it paid, and New Jersey only 66%.) Most of the South got back much more than it paid. Here's my source:
http://www.nemw.org/taxburd.htm

So, some return of our tax dollars for NEC infrastructure improvements would only slightly reduce the Northeast's disproportionate tax contribution to the rest of the country.

Nip, I always respect your views regarding matters in the Southeast. indicative of that is the straight to the point advice you gave at the proposed Circle Trip thread, all of which, based on many years of snowbird experience, I concur.

Now to the Northeast, how about deferring to those of us who live, or in my case, still have ties there.

To Balkanize the Northeast Corridor would simply be the death of it as we know it. While the commuter services would likely remain as existing, the Amtrak service would be wide open to deterioriation.

Wisely, the framers of the RPSA 1970 called for a National System; did anyone think that they envisioned a revival of the "Golden Age" or even at least what existed circa 1950? I doubt it. They simply recognized that the only way that Federal level funding could be obtained for the only thing that really counts (i.e. severe economic disruption would occur in its absence), namely the nine State Northeast Corridor, was to propose a national system that would pass out its bounty i.e. a train here, a job there, a procurement contract here and there, throughout the various legislative districts. In a perfect world, where governments would not fund things such as cowgirl museums and studies of catfish mating habits (don't they just do it?), there would be no national system, and in your apparent backyard of Tampa (Plant City according to your MP), there would be as many trains as there are in Mexico (city) today (OK, I guess Phoenix and Las Vegas as well).

Regional level funding of the Corridor? Sorry, makes it on paper of course, but pragmatically forget it. Could the New York area come together and form a Tri-State Regional Authority? Well, as a kid during the fifties, and reading about the progress, or lack thereof, first hand in The New York Times (been reading it since I was eight years old), it was found the idea was unworkable. As a result, public funding of commuter rail service (even the most fanatical Amtrak advocates must concede that is more essential than any intercity service) was set back some ten years. What have we today? three states, three authorities (a little "gray" with respect to CT).

Anyone care to guess what the odds would be of having NINE states come together? I'll sooner bet the sun will rise in the West tomorrow.

So, Nip and others, the only way in our existing political climate (no change whatever if someone other than the incumbent raises his right next January) to have the funding is to have the National System including the Corridor as an integeral part..

Gilbert B Norman so eloquantly wrote:...someone other than the incumbent raises his right next January...

Here, here!

Since Amtrak's creation, Administrations of both parties have tried to cut Amtrak's funding. On the other hand, both Democratic presidents since Amtrak have been Southern. (The last Northern Democratic president was JFK.) We know that Bush II is trying to starve Amtrak. We can hope that, if Kerry, a Senator from Massachusetts, is elected, he will be more sympathetic to Amtrak.