Interesting consist at Sayville - 3/21

Chris,

With FEC GP40 #2000 on the head end? Yum yum yum. Maybe in June, right?

Joe

NIMBYkiller wrote:"Virtually every day the company is ordering buses to replace a train whose DE/DM has died enroute. "

That's bs and you know it. There is no way that this is happening nearly as often as you claim.

Sorry if I offended you. I should have been more precise. Yesterday, no buses were ordered. Monday, Sunday and Saturday they were. Sunday, A DE left folks stranded for two hours while a protect engine was called. Oooo, look, on Sunday, buses replaced two different trains.

Looking back the past ten days, buses were used on seven of those days to replace diesel trains that couldn't make it or rescue people trapped in them.

I suppose you like those engines? Study hard, make a lot of money and they can be yours. We woun't miss them, nore will the passengers.

Clem

I was in New Hyde Park yesterday. I saw Sw 1500 166 heading west pulling a new bi level consist. Were they towing it back to Jamaica Station?

Actually, it is the exact opposite. I hate the DE/DMs. I just couldn't fathom that they failed that much. I guess it just hasn't been publicized nearly as much as it was in the earlier years.

I wouldn't be suprised if the RR were just bustituting sometimes just b/c it wasn't worth it to run the train(not enough people). The airlines cancel flights sometimes b/c of not enough people on the flight(though they BS it and tell you it's a "mechanical problem")

I'm surprised... Their prime-mover is suppose to be one of the best I thought? The EMD 710, all of the class I's have several thousand SD-70M's, with this engine or a version of it. Is it all of the added electronics maybe?

-Barry

Clem you obviously know more the I do, and have access to info that I don't, but I think you maybe exaggerating. I have been running a diesel job since the summer I have only become disabled twice due to a problem with the locomotive. I have had more issues with the Cab Car then the loco's.

9C1LT1 wrote:I'm surprised... Their prime-mover is suppose to be one of the best I thought? The EMD 710, all of the class I's have several thousand SD-70M's, with this engine or a version of it. Is it all of the added electronics maybe?

-Barry

The DM/DE only shares a little bit with the "stock" locomotives. LIRR had customized a lot of things (including the ugly hood on the front), and whenever possible had Long Island businesses build the systems. I have heard that many of these companies took the money and ran. No support. LIRR is on their own.

Guys, especially Nimby, listen to what Clem is saying before you tell him it's "bullshit".

The LIRR ordered 46 locomotives in the last EMD order. Previously, they had 23 Geeps and approximately 6 1500's and 2 FL9's dedicated to passenger service as "traction" locomotives. Not to be confused with 1500's used to provide Hotel Power. They now have 46 locomotives for this purpose. Add in about 4 dual-mode trains today to eat up 8 DM's that they didn't have in service prior to the DM's. They haven't added any diesel service. Now do the math.

Now you tell me if Clem is "bullshitting" Nimby. Clem and I were there before this "New level in transportation" sweeped Long Island. From what I read on here, some of the Trainmen and Engineers are post 1999/2000 hirees so they really cannot compare what they see now to anything. I'm not saying this to be condescending or anything. I'm saying it so that you will understand that Clem can compare and looks at the LIRR operation differently than many newer people do. So his statements and opinions will naturally differ.

The railroad we hired on to would have and did on occasions, use yard switchers to cover schedules if they had no road engines. Try that now.

When the LIRR had it's "old" fleet, they wouldn't have needed rescue engines nearly as much as now..why? Follow these scenarios that was very common:

The train is an old style Push-Pull..Some sort of malfuntion occurs on a westbound from Montauk. The rear Geep is fine but the train cannot be run from the west end. They have two options. The Engr operates the train from the Geep shoving at 15mph causing major delay and due to the Single track rules, problems with opposing trains. Or...the train limps to the next passing or double-end freight siding and by utilizing the siding, 15 minutes later the Geep is on the head-end backwards operating at MAS.

The train is in Oyster Bay or PD..the Geep is fine but whatever is west is not. A quick move and the Geep was west facing backwards. Most of the time, between trains this was accomplished without any passenger even knowing the train was disabled.

The Geep dies enroute. If your train was a Push-Pull with a P-engine, you converted the P-Engine to a hauling locomotive and ran MAS.

If the train had only one engine or was a Push-Pull with a Power Pack, a manager or taxi would take you to the nearest diesel yard and you were on your way out to get your train with a Geep or 1500 facing whatever way it was without "wyeing" it.

In all the cases I outlined above, a rescue engine was not need nor buses.

Today, if you have a perfectly fine DE but "bluebelly's" dead Cab-Car, the Engineer cannot run his train from the west end..the choice is to shove, nowadays at 30mph but shove none the less. He cannot run his locomotive around his train at a double ended siding because the LIRR decided that the road-switcher body was not modern looking and opted for a full cowled engine.

The train in Oyster Bay or PD would be cancelled because you cannot run DE/DM's backwards, a rescue would be sent and buses cover the schedule.

The dead DE/DM Push-Pull train on the road would have to be rescued by another engine.

The engine the Engineer was taken to the diesel yard to rescue his train would have to be "wyed" if not facing in the proper direction, then possibly "wyed" again to come back if they had a "Wye".

Without question, the LIRR made a terrible mistake buying an entire fleet of locomotives with a full cowling. This foolish move has permanently ended any versatility they had before and now makes the problems of their diesel fleet more apparent because they have to use buses and rescue engines more. If the locomotives were road switcher bodies, most of the problems with Cab-Cars and such would never be known by outsiders because the engine would be far more versatile.

They were warned when they were buying this junk. But the arrogance of the people in the procurement process was appalling.

So next time someone says Clem is "bullshitting"..think about his railroad and what he experienced coming up on the LIRR, (which clearly defines his opinions) what you have now.

bluebelly wrote: I have been running a diesel job since the summer I have only become disabled twice due to a problem with the locomotive.

ok, fair enough. but how many times have you been disabled due to a problem with an MU during the same length of time? i'm guessing none. These locomotives were supposed to function on par with the MU's, and clearly they are not.

As Liquid said, being a newcomer, you can't compare this with the old railroad. You weren't here back then perhaps. There was a time when you could have run a job for twenty years without becoming disabled due to equipment.

Also, without the versitility of a well designed fleet, there are fewer options when something does go wrong. What was once a delay of ten minutes today often takes hours to rectify with passengers put on buses and rescue equipment ordered from Jamaica.

The result is far poorer service for the passengers.

This lack of reliability is not the norm for a railroad operation that for years successfully completed 99.999% of its trips.

Clem

Liquid do you actually read people's posts before responding or just the first few words and then go off.
I didn't say Clem was BSing, In fact I acknowledged that Clem knows more then I do and has access to info I don't. I also didn't say that this equipment is a reliable as the old stuff or a reliable as it should be. What I (and I believe Nimby) questioned and still guestion is the statement
"Virtually every day the company is ordering buses to replace a train whose DE/DM has died enroute"
My daily experience tells me that this is not the case. And when buses are ordered it is not always due to a problem with a DM/DE. For example weren't the buses ordered Saturday due to that kid getting hit by 8710?

With a 1500 on the west end with a DE/cabcar disabled. can the 1500 haul the train with passengers @ track speed or is such an act prohibited by some rediculas thing that im not aware of..

equpt virsitility or busses.. hey guys take a pick here..
i kinda wish the indivisulas souly responsible for this contraptions actully looked at the problems that Licquid pointed out or took more issues into consideration befor opting on a desigine that was not the best possible thing for LIRR style operations.

any reasons why the cndr. cant stand in teh rear cab on the DE's and call signals ect.. and still run the train from engine in reverse to the nearst "Y" or place to get help?

I would have to make a assumption that the LIRR must be regreting there dissions to remove "Y" and "TT" becaus they would have shure come in handy today.

Just to add to this, I have been disabled quite a number of times with the MU's, and I have only had one occassion where the Diesel became disabled. Clemuel- DE/ DM's do not break down as much as you claim they do. Not to mention that there are numerous projects taking place on the RR that are requiring some trains to use buses while work is taking place. I believe that this is occuring on the Montauk branch and the OB branch. And as we already know, service east of Ronkonkoma doesn't qualify under this category as they simply choose on occassion to replace service with buses. I agree with Bluebelly, I rarely hear over the radio any problems concerning the Diesels and plenty of breakdowns with M-1/ M-3's.

Bluebelly, what are you talking about?

I DO read every post, and was reffering to NIMBY (actually naming him by the way so as not to cause confusion) saying what he said, namely.."That's bs and you know it. There is no way that this is happening nearly as often as you claim." posted March 22nd, replying to Clemuel and his post.

The refference to "bluebelly's Cab Car" was making a comparison between then and now, because you mentioned that you have more trouble with Cab Cars than locomotives and I wanted to state how problems were handled when the west unit of the "old" fleet had mechanical problems compared to the "new" fleet. So for the benefit of those people who read these posts and there are alot more than you and I, I made comparisons.

Why does this offend you?

In addition, this is at times an educational site and I am comparing railroad operations then and now..am I not allowed to talk about this?

To LI7285,

A 1500 on the head end of a Push-Pull train can be operated at 65mph, the MAS for a 1500 on a passenger train assuming that the train it is towing has 100% braking ability. If it does not, there is a railroad "formula" as to reducing the speed to correspond with reduced braking ability.

Lets see, in the past hour, 2733 died at Mastic.

Give me another hour, and I'll give you another downed DE/DM.

As Camphor pointed out, the flexibility of a shrouded engine is far less than that of a road switcher. What would be a ten minute delay can take hours to rescue because the things only work in one direction.

Old guys remember the Fairbanks-Morse "C-Liners" for which the railroad so patiently waited for the first opportunity to unload. Same reason. After them, only road switchers made the ranks. They were invented for this type of short-haul, high reliability and flexibility service. Nope, 40 years of railroaders weren't stupid. They specified the engine best suited for the job.

Its unfortunate that the MTA unloaded a subway president on the LIRR who was obsessed with the "Jap Bullet Train Look," as he would say. Then they allowed him to overide the insistance of the Mechanical and Transportation Departments for road switchers.

He was canned as the goofy things became infamous, but now the taxpayers are stuck with overly-computerized unreliable inflexible engines and their hideous repair bills.

Oh look, 2735's an hour late, and the rialroad is ordering buses.