Inky article on SEPTA's shortcomings.

Any thoughts on the article in the Sunday edition on the Phila Inquirer? it pointed out the fact that most people travel from suburb to suburb to work and to do this by public transit entails traveling into the city and back out again. The solution seems obvious; to build a belt system (or two) to go from Bucks County to Chester and Delaware Counties.The idea is certainly not original but perhapse its time has finally come.

I read that article with a bit of surprise yesterday. I didn't expect the Inky to actually have a reasonable analysis of the region's traffic infrastructure situation.
I don't know about a rail belt system though. While it does sound like a quick fix, without some serious changes to land use policy in the region, Transit Oriented Development of the kind of scale needed will continue to lag. Those belt trains may help cut time down on a few suburb to suburb commutes, but the majority of destinations just aren't close to the existing stations to a larger scale degree. I also don't have a lot of hope that townships without transit access will suddenly flock to increase taxes to ease congestion. The 422 toll fiasco is the first example that comes to mind.
While I would love to see rejuvination of city areas with excellent potential for transit, I just don't see it coming soon considering our track record. (N Philly/N Broad, Wayne Junction just scream for massive private mixed use developments)

As much as I don't want to be cynical, I'm afraid I have to agree that major changes won't happen unless there's a political earthquake. Pennsylvania has more independent planning districts than any other state and they value that independence tenaciously. Act 89 notwithstanding, Harrisburg still has a lot of hostility towards Philadelphia so I wouldn't expect to see any action to enable better regional planning, either. Plus even when there IS support for a project (e.g. K of P, the Navy Yard) just getting it out of the discussion phase takes more time than most cities spend going from talk to revenue service.

For now we may have to work towards successful implementation of a number of incremental projects, and hope that positive outcomes encourage consideration of other larger projects. But after seeing so little happen over the last 40 years I hope I can be forgiven for not being too optimistic.

That seems about the size of it; it took decades for the whole situation to develop, and it's not going to get fixed any faster than that. The whole KofP problem began in the immediate postwar years (England had a "railway mania" in the 19th century, and we had a "highway mania" beginning with the creation of the Interstate system a century later) when the intersection of two interstates spurred the creation of a massive (and paradoxical) concentration of urban sprawl at a location nowhere near any useful rail route. Further expansion of commercial, office, and residential sprawl without public transportation was seen as the wave of the future, and I think still is by too many people. And, as pointed out above, even when a railroad line runs through a general area, it's no help if you can't put a station within a practical distance of the office parks; the "last mile" problem stymies it. I thought it was interesting that the article featured a photo of a lineup of vans at Paoli waiting to take transfer passengers to nearby (but not near enough) office parks.

I also read the article. I believe the primary cause of our region's transit and employment mismatch is the City of Philadelphia. High taxes drive jobs to cheaper and far flung suburbs where there is no public transit. If Center City represented 50% of the region's job our transit system would provide a higher percentage of commutes. It's just too expensive to put rail everywhere.

Bettertransitphilly wrote:I believe the primary cause of our region's transit and employment mismatch is the City of Philadelphia. High taxes drive jobs to cheaper and far flung suburbs where there is no public transit

IMO Philadelphia's business climate is a major part of the problem but by no means the only one. Incredibly poor car-only planning by developers goes a long way to thwarting the use of those suburban transit options that do exist. Buildings are sited on huge swaths of land set back from highways, negating access even by buses let alone rails. Look at places like Radnor, any number of isolated buildings near Chesterbrook Blvd. and 202, etc. The new trend of breaking shopping centers into "pods" of two or three stores separated by parking lots contributes, too, by making it necessary to drive between any buildings that aren't in the same "pod" - see e.g. the Providence "town center" south of Collegeville. I realize that open space is highly desirable and often required by local zoning, but buildings could be put where they're more accessible while keeping the same amount of open land.

It's just too expensive to put rail everywhere.

Very true, which is why I'm advocating for different land-use patterns.

JeffK wrote:

Bettertransitphilly wrote:I believe the primary cause of our region's transit and employment mismatch is the City of Philadelphia. High taxes drive jobs to cheaper and far flung suburbs where there is no public transit

IMO Philadelphia's business climate is a major part of the problem but by no means the only one. Incredibly poor car-only planning by developers goes a long way to thwarting the use of those suburban transit options that do exist. Buildings are sited on huge swaths of land set back from highways, negating access even by buses let alone rails. Look at places like Radnor, any number of isolated buildings near Chesterbrook Blvd. and 202, etc. The new trend of breaking shopping centers into "pods" of two or three stores separated by parking lots contributes, too, by making it necessary to drive between any buildings that aren't in the same "pod" - see e.g. the Providence "town center" south of Collegeville. I realize that open space is highly desirable and often required by local zoning, but buildings could be put where they're more accessible while keeping the same amount of open land.

It's just too expensive to put rail everywhere.

Very true, which is why I'm advocating for different land-use patterns.

Somewhat ironically, it is even difficult for me to navigate Providence Town Center in a car. The complex has multple buildings that look the same from a distance, & its internal signage is very poor. I have gotten lost several times just trying to go from Wegmans to Five Below.

ex Budd man wrote:Any thoughts on the article in the Sunday edition on the Phila Inquirer? it pointed out the fact that most people travel from suburb to suburb to work and to do this by public transit entails traveling into the city and back out again. The solution seems obvious; to build a belt system (or two) to go from Bucks County to Chester and Delaware Counties.The idea is certainly not original but perhapse its time has finally come.

Could not find link. Was it an actual article or a letter to the editor?

Launcher wrote:

ex Budd man wrote:Any thoughts on the article in the Sunday edition on the Phila Inquirer? it pointed out the fact that most people travel from suburb to suburb to work and to do this by public transit entails traveling into the city and back out again. The solution seems obvious; to build a belt system (or two) to go from Bucks County to Chester and Delaware Counties.The idea is certainly not original but perhapse its time has finally come.

Could not find link. Was it an actual article or a letter to the editor?

probably a newspaper exclusive

The article was in the Sunday Inquirer Bucks county edition. I'm assuming that it was in all editions as it would affect rides in all five counties served by SEPTA.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/t ... _home.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's even better is the article on SEPTA paying a half mil to a contractor who couldn't sell train tickets. Great PR for the idiots at 1234, which is probably their address because they wouldn't otherwise remember it.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/t ... _year.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm a bit shocked it took this long for bike to chime in with the usual bitterness we've all come to know and love..
How exactly does a crashed SEPTA website have to do with the subject at hand?
I would think you'd be excited about the possibilities you and your bike could offer to solve the region's transit ills.
Or you can just hate on..

I'm a bit shocked (not really) how many of you are fine and dandy with the failing status quo at SEPTA who thrives on mediocrity and really isn't into providing first class, clean, efficient and reliable service. That explains why Philly will always remain a pitstop as far as east coast cities go.

I think many people on this forum will say how they are content with how SEPTA has been turning somethings around in these past few years. I have noticed a change in their approach they have actually listened to passengers and customers on somethings....we can't have everything we want at a drop of a hat. Cant have rail lines extended and built when we want them. Things take time and approval. Right now SEPTA is playing catch-up which is by means one of the most things that everyone seemed to complain about and SEPTA is taking advantage of that. Last time i checked building new rail lines isn't cheap. I'm sure if it was we would have service to Lehigh Valley , Reading....but we don't. I am rooting for SEPTA....they not the only transit authority with issues.