If you could restore a defunct Amtrak route

No silvers from BOS until the 8 car winter limitation is fixed. That will require new service facility farther from south station that can take longer trains..

east point wrote:No silvers from BOS until the 8 car winter limitation is fixed. That will require new service facility farther from south station that can take longer trains..

what if trains were set up to be split at new Haven such that through cars to Boston never exceeded 8 cars?

Tadman wrote:I'm a corridor guy.

1. Valpo Dummy!!! The state of Indiana foolishly turned down a $1m/year to keep this running in 1990. The area has boomed in population and needs a commuter train, but it's got a huge pricetag now that they let the PRR lapse. It's also crazy because while the area has grown, it's still lagging behind the growth of areas that have regular commuter trains (Naperville since 1990? Wow talk about growth).

2. Kentucky Cardinal. Given the ability to straighten out the Indy run, service to IU in Bloomington could be a real winner.

3. Duluth Northstar. Imagine the impact of 2-3/day CHI-MSP-Duluth rather than running the builder to serve the imaginary "transportationless" people of Montana.

Oh man, I forgot the Kentucky Cardinal. With the CSX-funded upgrades without CSX actually being in control yet, it might actually stand a chance.

I'd say the Valpo Dummy should be NICTD, but that has about as much chance as a Sno Cone in either Hell or Phoenix.

Suburban Station wrote:

east point wrote:No silvers from BOS until the 8 car winter limitation is fixed. That will require new service facility farther from south station that can take longer trains..

what if trains were set up to be split at new Haven such that through cars to Boston never exceeded 8 cars?

What is the 8 car winter limitation in Boston? First I've heard of this .....

NITCD has presented plans for service to Valpo via the old-Monon through Hammond and Munster and then on to the CN, ex-GTW. Of course these plans have been shelved for now to concentrate on service to Dyer (and eventually Lowell), but it could happen. It's certainly not Amtrak's responsibility.
As far as the Wolverines are concerned, I see nothing wrong with running them through the northern Detroit suburbs to Pontiac, just picking up an extra service area. Unless some kind of commuter route returns to the ex-GTW route, it offers service to places that would not have trains otherwise..

CHTT1 wrote: I see nothing wrong with running them through the northern Detroit suburbs to Pontiac, just picking up an extra service area. Unless some kind of commuter route returns to the ex-GTW route, it offers service to places that would not have trains otherwise..

The Pontiac extension sees 90-120 minute running time from Ann Arbor (60 route miles) and frequent freight interference. Contrast that with 47 road miles and 1 hour drive time. It makes more sense to drive from the northern burbs to Ann Arbor than it does to ride downtown, then west.

I've become a corridor guy, too. But I took the "Amtrak route" title to limit us to LD trains. So thanks for opening it up.

Tadman wrote:I'm a corridor guy.

1. Valpo Dummy!!! . . .
[Sorry, I know nothing.]

2. Kentucky Cardinal. Given the ability to straighten out the Indy run, service to IU in Bloomington could be a real winner.
[Put about $225 million into the Hoosier State route, to cut half an hour from the trip time. http://www.in.gov/indot/files/Amtrak_Co ... s_2013.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Meanwhile a Class 1 recently took over tracks Indy-Louisville and upgraded. They probably wouldn't welcome passenger trains, but to spend money on further track improvements, a deal could be done. Indy-Cincinnati would fit with this, too. Then trains Cincy-Indy-CHI, Louisville-Indy-CHI, a daily Hoosier State Indy-CHI, plus the Cardinal, would make Indy-CHI a 4-trains-a-day-or-more corridor, and that would WORK!]

3. Duluth Northstar. Imagine the impact of 2-3/day CHI-MSP-Duluth . . .
[Isn't that assuming 2-3-a-day CHI-MSP first? At least 3 a day. Better 5 or 6 trains, with at least one being Grand Forks-Fargo-St Cloud-MSP-CHI. Hey, I'd even have a stop at Milwaukee, Gov Whatsisface notwithstanding. ]

4. Original Wolverine (just to Detroit). Now that Amtrak owns the MIchigan line and they're upgrading NW Indiana and Detroit's local trackage, it makes no sense to terminate in Pontiac.
[Don't worry about Pontiac. When the upgrades Dearborn-Kalamazoo kick in next year, the Pontiac Three (remember Birmingham/Troy and Royal Oak), which already combine for more passengers than Detroit itself, will see many more riders. Anyway, Michigan's plan for 9 Wolverines doesn't take all of them past Detroit. http://greatlakesrail.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The next, best, cheapest-to-add corridor would be to extend a CHI-Carbondale train, the Saluki in this direction, just 5 hours on to Memphis, arriving in the big city around 6:45 p.m. Overnight. NB the train would leave Memphis at about 11:15 a.m., picking up the Illini's current schedule at Carbondale 5 hours later. You'd get a day train (the CONO is overnight) CHI-Memphis, 528 miles and 10 hours, for the cost of only an added 220 miles and 5 hours, because Illinois is already subsidizing the cost of the CHI-Carbondale segment. Of course, that state-supported section would gain many riders with big city Memphis as the southern anchor, and so Illinois' costs would go down. But who would pay to get the train the rest of the way to Memphis?

Once the Potomac Long Bridge is rebuilt and capacity is no longer limited, several more Virginia corridor trains become practical. The main route from Amtrak's view would be D.C.-Richmond-Petersburg-Raleigh-Greensboro-Charlotte. When the Petersburg-Raleigh short-cut is (re-)built, it will have 6 daily state-supported trains iirc, and the Silver Star will move over from its current route.

Bonus to LD trains: Every minute cut from D.C.-Richmond-Petersburg saves time for the Palmetto, Star, Meteor, Carolinian, and the Auto Train.

And not least, the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative looked at Chicago-Fort Wayne-Toledo-Cleveland with corridor trains running 110 mph, about 2 or 2 1/2 hours faster than now. The MWRRI planned 8 or 9 trains CLE-TOL-CHI. The proposed "Ohio Hub" plan would have added another 8 trains CLE-TOL-DET.

Bonus #1 for CHI-TOL-CLE, the most expensive per mile to upgrade this route would be CHI-Gary, and all of that cost is included in either CREATE or the South of the Lake project for the Michigan trains. Of course, still not cheap to build a 110-mph corridor here, but better when costs are shared n spread.

Bonus #2 for CHI-TOL-CLE, taking two or 2 1/2 hours out of that corridor would take the same time out of the Lake Shore Ltd and the Capitol Ltd, and a reborn Broadway Ltd. How ever the schedulers would use those saved hours -- for the Cap Ltd[i/] a later EB departure from CHI Union Station (currently 6:40 p.m.), or earlier hour in Toledo (currently 11:39 p.m., much better at 10:39 p.m., no?), even a before-midnight arrival in Cleveland (!), (now 1:54 a.m.), and a before lunch 11ish arrival in D.C. (now 1:05 p.m.), but uh oh, watch out, Pittsburgh (the 5 a.m. just became a 3 a.m. stop) -- still, however they used those hours, ridership would soar.

We could use still more corridors, but now I'm remembering it says "restore a defunct route". Well, if I have to pick just one, I'll go with CHI-Champaign-Carbondale-Memphis.

This topic is quite similar to the Poll Question on Discontinued Routes thread in which I nominated the Gulf Breeze. I still think it is extremely worthwhile and is probably my number one pick.

I would also throw my hat behind everything JP1822 supported in addition to the Cape Codder and restoration of the inland route (NHV-SPG-BOS.)

Woody: Agree about long bridge expansion. Another point about your WASH - Richmond, - Raleigh - CLT is once that route is upgraded the enroute time for that route will be ~ same as Crescent times. That then calls for one or more trains extended to Atlanta 1st as a day train ATL - NYP connecting 4 state capitals.. ATL to 2 new capitals.

Tadman wrote:

CHTT1 wrote: I see nothing wrong with running them through the northern Detroit suburbs to Pontiac, just picking up an extra service area. Unless some kind of commuter route returns to the ex-GTW route, it offers service to places that would not have trains otherwise..

The Pontiac extension sees 90-120 minute running time from Ann Arbor (60 route miles) and frequent freight interference. Contrast that with 47 road miles and 1 hour drive time. It makes more sense to drive from the northern burbs to Ann Arbor than it does to ride downtown, then west.

Presuming you have access to a car that is.
Your point is valid otherwise , and I wonder if in this and other similar situations, if Amtrak would be better off providing shuttles to multiple locations, where the train is slow and prone to delay. I'm surprised California style intensive Thruway services are not more common in the Midwest/East.

I think extended train service to Memphis is a really great idea as well. Anything that puts a large population center at the end of a route originating in Chicago is a great idea.

gokeefe wrote:I think extended train service to Memphis is a really great idea as well. Anything that puts a large population center at the end of a route originating in Chicago is a great idea.

Does that really count as a "restoration" of a defunct route, though? I thought Memphis has only had 1x/day since A-day.

According to the wiki the River Cities, a connecting train for the City of New Orleans service operated via Memphis as well. However, in all fairness the connection was made at Carbondale, meaning the train schedule through Memphis was in fact only once per day.

Still notable nonetheless that even if Memphis has only ever received one train per day during the Amtrak era it has in fact been served by more than one route.

Purely selfish - reinstitute service on the "S"-line through Ocala and Wildwood, maybe in conjunction with the "hot right now" talk about service from New Orleans to Orlando. Would love to be able to visit Gulfport/Biloxi by train.

Ocala Mike wrote:Would love to be able to visit Gulfport/Biloxi by train.

I think that is going to happen within the next year or two. Although you won't be able to ride the S-line you will almost certainly be able to arrive in Mississippi by train.