Ice is nice...

A co-worker told me that some of the passenger cars in the old days was cooled by a fan blowing over a block of ice. I was intrigued by this, but am not sure if he was pulling my leg or not. Anyone know of this? What time period perhaps?

Also, the Island must have had several icehouses to ice down the reefer cars back in the day. I've heard tell of such from old New Haven RR retirees that they had several scattered over the system, and that they'd whip blocks the size of bundled newspapers over flimsy wooden ramps into the top of the reefers with salt added sometimes by using long gaffes/poles with hooks at the end. Did the LIRR have these, and where and when? I'd venture a guess in maybe Holban, or Yard A. Anyone?

Thanks in advance!

If I'm not mistaken, the heavyweight parlor cars were ice cooled in this manner.

Jay

The system of the fan blowing across the block of ice to cool the car was, indeed, an early means of railcar air conditioning.

Your co-worker wasn't pulling your leg.

Also, the ice in the early reefer cars were handled in this manner. Large ice companies were located all over the island in days past. One such establishment was the Knickerbocker Ice Co., which had plants at various station locations as well as a large plant in Sunnyside, Long Island City, located behind the Knickerbocker Laundry (affiliated businesses?).

This shot shows the laundry trackside, with the ice company just barely visible at the far left behind it.
Dave Keller

I've also heard this story numerous times. Seems like a much better way than they had wit the P72s and P75s, which was no AC. lol.

Nimby and Krispy Creme,
When I hired out in 1988 as a cleaner the 2900's were how should I say it. Like walking into a Pacific Express Refrigerator car. It was a pleasure to clean those cars. The 2700's(Zip cars Worlds Fair) were nice too. But as time went on things went KAPUT!!! Enter the C3's They are nice as in cool cars but the AC system too computerized....
Chris

That laundry in Dave's picture today is the front of a huge Korean Presbyterian Church.

LI Loco:

Thanx for the update!

Dave Keller

krispy wrote:A co-worker told me that some of the passenger cars in the old days was cooled by a fan blowing over a block of ice. I was intrigued by this, but am not sure if he was pulling my leg or not. Anyone know of this? What time period perhaps?

This was the practice in India. It is described by Paul Theroux in his "Great Railway Bazaar" - an account of a journey by rail across Eurasia in the 1970s. The ice was renewed at intermediate stations. (Of course only the First Class got the ice.) Presumably the ice was made in ice plants.

Yes ineed Krispy, they did in fact use ice for air conditioning. The ice was placed in a bunker under the frame of the car and salt was added to aid the evaporation. This was done mostly with the Pullmans and upper crust stuff. The commuters had 50mph and open windows. Refer cars had ice added though the roofs. Somewhere in my books that I have around here has a picture of "icing the cars". I will post it when I find it.

Dave Keller wrote: Also, the ice in the early reefer cars were handled in this manner. Large ice companies were located all over the island in days past. One such establishment was the Knickerbocker Ice Co., which had plants at various station locations as well as a large plant in Sunnyside, Long Island City, located behind the Knickerbocker Laundry (affiliated businesses?).

This shot shows the laundry trackside, with the ice company just barely visible at the far left behind it.

Does this picture show an overhead electrical system? What period is it? When was it changed for Third Rail?

Thanks to all who responded! I forgot how that conversation came up in the first place, but it did bring up an interesting "how did they DO that?". I'm glad to hear that there was something else besides open windows - which must have been fun going through the east river tunnels. Or better yet, Jamaica in August when they had all of these meathouses and fish markets.

George, that pic was taken the vicinity of the eastern limits of Harold, and the tracks with the catenary are the two New Haven tracks before they veer off to the north to take to the Hellgate. The one closest to the photographer is New Haven #2, the one to the far left is NH #1. They put short runs of third rail on those two tracks only in the past year or so, in order to accomodate reverse moves back into Harold...

cheers...

Also, the shot was taken in 1937.

It is of train #19, the "Sunrise Special" on its last leg of the trip from Montauk, heading west from Jamaica after head-end power was changed.

Dave Keller

The ice (usually 5-7 ton's worth of 300-lb cakes) was contained in an insulated bunker under the car floor (looks like a battery box, with heavier hinges). The ice melted, helped along by a series of spray pipes in the top of the bunker where the return water (more about that in a minute) came back into the bunker and flowed over the ice blocks. The cold water (about 35-37 degrees) was pumped out of a sump in the bottom of the ice bunker by a pump located under the floor of the car. The cold water was pumped through an overhead coil located in one end of the car, up in the ceiling (usually over one of the toilet rooms). This coil was located in the air duct, and an electrically-driven blower moved air over the coil, which was at about 40-45 degrees temp. The water came out of the coil at about 50 degrees, and gravity took it down to the spray pipes, where it helped melt the ice again.

And the salt was only used on freight reefers when they were in meat or frozen food service-- the salt added to the ice lowered the car's temp. No salt was used in pass car a/c.

Air was not blown over the ice blocks on passenger car a/c systems. The reefers (freight) did have ice bunkers which used natural circulation for the most part-- some later (40s-50s) ice reefers used circulating fans driven off the car wheels, but that was not as common.

HP
www.rmne.org
a/c tech
pass car restorer
LIRR 39 mover (1980)

Dave Keller wrote:One such establishment was the Knickerbocker Ice Co., which had plants at various station locations as well as a large plant in Sunnyside, Long Island City, located behind the Knickerbocker Laundry (affiliated businesses?).

This shot shows the laundry trackside, with the ice company just barely visible at the far left behind it.
Dave Keller

That is a very familiar location from my teenage days (late 1960s - early 1970s)! Isnt this building on 37th Avenue (north of and parallel to the tracks) between 43rd ST and 48th ST in Sunnyside, Queens? It was about a mile from my home; my girlfriend and I used to walk over there for a little train watching and quiet time away from nosy neighborhood eyes.

Chris, dig through your memory banks, and if you remeber the job bullitans from when we first hired on in the mid-80's as coach cleaners, one of the job descriptions of a coach cleaner was "icing cars", although by that time, it was no longer done.