How SEPTA intentionally killed Newtown rail service

I agree. Move the trails & put up a fence between trail & tracks.

25Hz wrote:I agree. Move the trails & put up a fence between trail & tracks.

Uhhhhh yeah and let vandals take the rail and sell it

zebrasepta wrote:

25Hz wrote:I agree. Move the trails & put up a fence between trail & tracks.

Uhhhhh yeah and let vandals take the rail and sell it

No, restore service on the line.....

jackintosh11 wrote:SEPTA is the only commuter system in the US that doesn't have any diesel service.

Although I agree that diesel service would allow SEPTA to quickly expand its reach it's better that they stick to all-electric for a variety of reasons. The biggest, in my opinion, is electric can be generated via a variety of means and sent down the wire whereas diesel comes from a single source and is subject to price fluctuations. This isn't to say that electricity isn't also subject to price fluctuations, but there are a variety of ways to mitigate that.

As backward thinking as SEPTA may seem sometimes, sticking to all-electric makes a lot of sense and 'future-proofs' the plant.

Newtown should have gone the route of the NHSL, only diesel version, which SEPTA considered in '85 when they tested that British buggy, but was ahead of it's time. A Riverline type service with closer stops and headways that met or exceeded Fox Chase service would attract ridership, and closer spaced stations would mitigate the need for massive parking. But this will not be. The opportunities to seize land for parking are largely gone. Newtown, Southampton and County Line all had sizable parcels that could have accommodated hundreds of cars, but has since been built on. There are too many NIMBYs, and the tree huggers just seized the Montco portion of the line. On top of that, SEPTA is opposed to ever using the line again, for whatever reason. Stick a fork in it, it's done!

bikentransit wrote:Newtown should have gone the route of the NHSL, only diesel version, which SEPTA considered in '85 when they tested that British buggy, but was ahead of it's time. A Riverline type service with closer stops and headways that met or exceeded Fox Chase service would attract ridership, and closer spaced stations would mitigate the need for massive parking. But this will not be. The opportunities to seize land for parking are largely gone. Newtown, Southampton and County Line all had sizable parcels that could have accommodated hundreds of cars, but has since been built on. There are too many NIMBYs, and the tree huggers just seized the Montco portion of the line. On top of that, SEPTA is opposed to ever using the line again, for whatever reason. Stick a fork in it, it's done!

Does a diamond crossing count as connected to the national rail network? Because they could run into issues with FRA noncompliance. Otherwise, electrify the thing with 3rd rail and get some more N5s or something like that.

I think at this point newtown should be connected with the west trenton line with a single track turning off & onto the old branch, let the trail nuts have their trail up to there. It would simplify electrification a small bit i'm guessing & eliminate a perpendicular diamond.

If a fair level of service could be operated without being stifled by Jenk-Wayne throughput, I'm inclined to agree. An advantageous side effect is that that Noble to Meadowbrook can be serviced by Newtown trains and eliminated from West Trenton peak trains.

Yet slots to run to newtown via Jenkin will be scarce at rush hour. Changing the current pocket track at NX into a 3rd track between Wayne Jct and Newtown Jct would give you the 2 slots per hour as a base service. That smaller 3rd track segment has the harder elements to it of the Wayne to Jenkin 3rd track.

How is electrification done at a diamond crossing? The west Trenton line connection makes more sense, as there is less in Montgomery county, and funding will be easier. Bucks county gets it's rail service, and Montgomery county gets it's trail.

Thinking outside the box, build a ramp up to the Trenton Cut Off. Send trains into the Norristown Transportation center to reverse directions. Build another ramp up to the ex-Pennsy alignment around Manyunk, sending trains back through Bala Cynwood to 30TH Street Station. This could be the first step to building the Cross County Metro, new connections with the Norristown High Speed Line and use the under utilized Cynwood line into 30th Street. It would also not add any traffic to the ex-Reading trunk and keep trains out of Bryn Athyn. Build a parking garage at County Line Road and another at the intersection of the PA Turnpike and the Blue Route and you now pick up many new riders. Travel time will not be all that bad with limited stops. Run service with either diesel or dual mode locomotives and push-pull equipment.

Service to all stations from Newtown to County Line Road on the Newtown Branch, run express to Plymouth Meeting's new park and ride. From there to NTC reversing to Manyunk on the ex Pennsy then onto Bala Cynwood and 30th Street.

nomis wrote:Young padawan, South Shore Line ...

That has been diesel-substituted in the past. Not so possible to run the entire route of SEPTA trains in that fashion, i.e. through the CCCT, but before Randolph Street Station in Chicago was built over, it was possible with NICTD.

Of course, who knows what form the tentative route to Valparaiso might take. No definite indications of it being electrified.

jackintosh11 wrote:Does a diamond crossing count as connected to the national rail network?

Certainly does not with SEPTA's route 11 crossing the former B&O on the Main Street grade crossing in Darby. The last such trolley/railroad diamond in the country IIRC.

bikentransit wrote:Newtown should have gone the route of the NHSL, only diesel version, which SEPTA considered in '85 when they tested that British buggy

That was not intended to be a conversion to anything like the P&W.

Never mind Norristown being served by both the former P&W and regional rail to this day.

So.. uh... how did SEPTA intentionally kill Newtown service?

This thread is become *yet another Newtown thread*. It's going to get merged into another one. Get it back on topic.

Back to topic, the real mystery is why Septa rejected a state grant back in 1983 to electrify the line. And that's how Septa killed the Newtown line.

I'd love to know why the trains were fixed by summer, but were towed away and sold off in the fall (of 83). The people at the time were right (I think one advocate was named Letti Gay Carson): get the diesels running until the electrification was in place. But SEPTA clearly did not want to keep the line and let it decay to the point of un-feasibility. It took 30 years, but they did it.