How do you define the NEC?

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:52 am Like a tree, you have a trunk and branches. I look at at the DC - Boston portion as the "Grand Trunk" of the NEC, heretofore known as the "Main Line".

Definite Branches:

-Philly to Harrisburg: factors include electrification and through trains (Keystones).

-New Haven to Springfield: while not electrified and requiring a change of engines, the route still has two Regional through trains. I don't consider the Vermonter as it's really an LD. I suppose you could consider the Valley Flyer as part of this, but I'm really on the fence with that one.

-Virginia: VA to Richmond has become an extension of the NEC with many Regionals continuing past DC. Other destinations such as Newport News, Norfolk, etc. are branches of that extension. Again, I don't consider electrification to be an overriding factor (electrification clinches it, but is not necessary here IMO.

Not:

-Empire Service. Not electrified, and just rings to me as separate as it really doesn't "touch" the NEC, even in Moynihan/Penn where the operate off distinct tracks.

Amtrak's Northeast page somewhat supports these conclusions: https://www.amtrak.com/northeast-regional-train

I consider LD to be "overnight" while the Vermonter, Pennsylvanian, et al that start and stop on the same day to be "daytrip" routes. The Keystone is more of a commuter route.

But in terms of the NEC, yes to the main line, yes to most of the branches, no to south of DC being a branch, and yes to Empire not being a branch.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:30 am
This means the NorthEast Regionals that start in Virginia stations don't start on the NEC, but join the NEC in DC... IE they use the NEC.

The state of VA now owns some measure of Long bridge to Richmond. That certainly trends it into the NEC.

I think of the NEC as Boston to Washington. Don't know much about Keystone, does that have as many trips as the "main corridor"? Until they start running Inland Regionals over the NHV-SPG branch and on to Boston, it will be a branch. Same for little pieces like the Dorchester Branch - it is an alternate route that isn't used as part of the NEC but could be. If through-service develops significantly south of Washington then the southern terminus could creep south. We could also think of Northeastern Rail Corridors (plural) that include heavily used or important branches like the NY Empire stuff, up to Canada, Vermonter, even the discontinuous Downeaster, all the way down to Florida.

Once Long bridge second bridge is in service it will be NEC all way to Richmond. Now the NS from ALX to end of VRE service probably not.

If Washington to Richmond with three trains a day is considered "the corridor" then Boston to Portland with 5x a day must be considered part of the NEC too.......

(which is an intentionally ludicrous statement...)

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I would consider the inland route as NEC, since through trains via Worcester have operated and will likely
again.

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:30 pm If Washington to Richmond with three trains a day is considered "the corridor" then Boston to Portland with 5x a day must be considered part of the NEC too.......
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Where in the world do you get 3 trains.? There a 6 daily regional RTs WASH<> RVR. Then you also have the Star, Meteor, Carolinian, & Palmetto that are all sold near departure date. Such as tomorrow. That totals to 10 RTs Although the 4 named trains northbound are often tardy so are not very good for reservations until the day leaving RVR.

Just for clarity: it's 10 trains a day from the Richmond VA Staples Mill Rd Station (RVR), but only 3 a day from Richmond Main Street Station (RVM).

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:30 pm If Washington to Richmond with three trains a day is considered "the corridor" then Boston to Portland with 5x a day must be considered part of the NEC too.......

(which is an intentionally ludicrous statement...)

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Hard to consider the Downeaster as an NEC service, since it doesn't have a revenue track connection to the NEC. Boston doesn't have a through running options, so the NEC ends at South Station, about a mile from where Portland trains leave from North Station.

HenryAlan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:55 am

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:30 pm If Washington to Richmond with three trains a day is considered "the corridor" then Boston to Portland with 5x a day must be considered part of the NEC too.......

(which is an intentionally ludicrous statement...)

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Hard to consider the Downeaster as an NEC service, since it doesn't have a revenue track connection to the NEC. Boston doesn't have a through running options, so the NEC ends at South Station, about a mile from where Portland trains leave from North Station.

Writing from Portland, I have to agree with this. And although I have no personal dog in the NEC Definition fight, from reading this thread I tend to agree that it's the Acela corridor from BOS to Washington.

When it comes to capital planning and the work of the Northeast Corridor Commission, the Springfield line, Keystone line, and Empire connection (to Sputyn Duyvil) are considered branch lines of the NEC and the Commission does capital planning for them. However the branch lines are NOT covered as part of the NEC as far as operating subidies. The branch lines are subject to PRIIA 209 rules. It's only for the Boston - Washington mainline where PRIIA 209 and state support doesn't apply.

We'll find out soon how FRA considers the branch lines as far as some of the grants in the infrastructure bill. (Whether they receive from the National network or NEC funding.)

By the letter of the law, they'll need to come from National network funding.

49 CFR 24102 is pretty explicit:
Notice that neither Virginia or Maine are mentioned in (8).....