Hicksville and Jamaica Station Improvements Begin

Will any of this affect NYA's Hicksville Team Yard and their access to it ????

Head-end View wrote:I agree. This Brooklyn shuttle is a bad idea and I predict a public relations nightmare when the passengers find out what's happening.

even after looking at before and after track diagrams i still do not see where there is that much crossover between lines at either end of JAM
at present IIRC, NYP trains coming east go over the FBA trains and use 7-8 while FBA trains use 6
leaving JAM most NYP trains go to the mainline even those to Babylon.
most FBA trains duck under to the Atlantic branch.
so where is all the crossing over they are looking to eliminate?
the GCT trains could use 8 along with the HPA LIC runs

similar going west.
most trains for NYP (or HPA or GCT) will use 1-2 and come from the mainline and leaving JAM veer right
the FBA trains come up from under (atlantic br.) and use 3 and then duck under the EB NY tracks.

other than harassing FBA commuters by forcing an up and over from new platform F (tracks 10-11 or whatever)
would still like to understand what the huge advantage of the new platform is

More from Hicksville.

Hicksville Track 1 dwarf by sphoto33, on Flickr

Crane wheel Track 1 Hicksville by sphoto33, on Flickr

I found the history of the Railroad Construction Company quite interesting, linked HERE. Note that its address on Grove Street, Paterson, NJ, appears adjacent to the Erie.

RE: the Brooklyn shuttle, some months back on this board someone (I forget who) suggested that there may be some future political division between the Brooklyn service and the rest of the LIRR. Like maybe privatizing it (!) or creating a separate political entity within the MTA to run that service using lower paid employees than currently exist on LIRR. Or maybe spinning it off to the subway system (!). IIRC that poster also suggested such a possibility re: the service to Grand Central, though I don't think that's likely to happen, given that there will be thru LIRR trains going to Grand Central, not a Jamaica shuttle. But with the Brooklyn service who knows?

flexliner wrote:

Head-end View wrote:I agree. This Brooklyn shuttle is a bad idea and I predict a public relations nightmare when the passengers find out what's happening.

even after looking at before and after track diagrams i still do not see where there is that much crossover between lines at either end of JAM
at present IIRC, NYP trains coming east go over the FBA trains and use 7-8 while FBA trains use 6
leaving JAM most NYP trains go to the mainline even those to Babylon.
most FBA trains duck under to the Atlantic branch.
so where is all the crossing over they are looking to eliminate?
the GCT trains could use 8 along with the HPA LIC runs

similar going west.

most trains for NYP (or HPA or GCT) will use 1-2 and come from the mainline and leaving JAM veer right
the FBA trains come up from under (atlantic br.) and use 3 and then duck under the EB NY tracks.

other than harassing FBA commuters by forcing an up and over from new platform F (tracks 10-11 or whatever)
would still like to understand what the huge advantage of the new platform is

I think the point is to reduce congestion at Jamaica.

The idea of selling of the Atlantic Branch was Helena's idea. I think that plan left when she did.

Will the up and over shuffle with it's greater potential for missed connections actually reduce people congestion more than a quick cross platform transfer?
And why not add a platform and track zero to the right of track 1 and a track 9 opposite 8? That way the potential for cross platform transfer remains and the FBA and Atlantic branch trains will still use the inner tracks (3 and 6)

flexliner wrote:Will the up and over shuffle with it's greater potential for missed connections actually reduce people congestion

They're not trying to reduce people congestion.

flexliner wrote:Will the up and over shuffle with it's greater potential for missed connections actually reduce people congestion more than a quick cross platform transfer?
And why not add a platform and track zero to the right of track 1 and a track 9 opposite 8? That way the potential for cross platform transfer remains and the FBA and Atlantic branch trains will still use the inner tracks (3 and 6)

The point of the program is to reduce train congestion by not having trains cross other tracks west of Jamaica. I don't think this program is a bad idea although I wish they could build a flyover east of Jamaica.

How much crossing is there? Don't FBA trains come and go under the EB rails from NYP?

Frank wrote: The point of the program is to reduce train congestion by not having trains cross other tracks west of Jamaica. I don't think this program is a bad idea although I wish they could build a flyover east of Jamaica.

They are building a flyover east of Jamaica. The Babylon Branch today merges into the Main Line Express Tracks east of Jamaica - before reaching dedicated station tracks. Part of the plan is to build new flyovers to get a direct connection from the Babylon Branch to the middle station tracks at Jamaica, freeing capacity as Babylon and Main Line Express trains no longer need to share tracks on approach (wb) or depart (eb) at Jamaica. However, this would only leave Babylon Branch trains with a conflict-free routing to FBA/Brooklyn whereas trains via Rosedale or to/from Hempstead would have to cross Babylon - Manhattan routings in order to reach the tracks towards FBA-Atlantic Terminal.

This is the first I am reading of a flyover east of Jamaica, but that makes the so-called "conflict" west of Jamaica make some sense. It's diagrammed well at Jamaica Reroute Scheme, which I missed or overlooked when originally posted. The "conflict" isn't about existing service; it's about what they want after they build the flyover for Babylon trains. The flyover probably puts most Babylon trains on tracks 4 and 5, where they would have to cross over existing Brooklyn service on 3 and 6. Of course, that is supposed to be Phase II and is in the next capital plan. I wouldn't be surprised if Phase II never gets done, though; such a thing is hardly unusual. I do like the idea of the flyover, though; for a while I have thought about eliminating the Babylon squeeze east of Jamaica and connecting Babylon to the current stub layup tracks.

I think design and construction of this Phase II are both in the current 2015 - 2019 Capital Program. The E Yard connection to the Babylon Branch (the "flyover" we are talking about) will most probably be build relatively soon as it is necessarily required to take full advantage of the new Platform F, East Side Access and the Main Line Third Track Project. Allowing the many Babylon Branch trains a conflict-free routing into/out of a dedicated station track at Jamaica will really open up a lot of space for more trains to and from the Main Line. All four "branches" east of Jamaica (Babylon, Valley Stream, 2 x Main Line) will have these conflict-free routings to dedicated station tracks in both directions. This makes matters a lot easier for scheduling trains. However, peak West Hempstead trains via St. Albans could continue to go to and from Brooklyn without any negative impacts.
And btw, there is already a flyover east of Jamaica, leading the Babylon Branch from the middle of the Main Line southwards, and also consider the diveunder of the Valley Stream tracks.

West Hempstead trains no longer stop at St. Albans. The branch sees little service and instead is more like a shuttle where trains go back and forth from West Hempstead to Valley Stream where customers have to board a train from Far Rockaway, Long Beach, or sometimes a Babylon. St. Albans is now serviced by only the Babylon and Long Beach Branches.

MattAmity90 wrote:West Hempstead trains no longer stop at St. Albans. The branch sees little service and instead is more like a shuttle where trains go back and forth from West Hempstead to Valley Stream where customers have to board a train from Far Rockaway, Long Beach, or sometimes a Babylon. St. Albans is now serviced by only the Babylon and Long Beach Branches.

I was writing about "peak West Hempstead" trains - necessarily through trains, not shuttles to/from Valley Stream. In the AM Peak, there are four of them stopping at St. Albans and terminating at FBA/Brooklyn (3) or Penn (1). If the LIRR decided running more than one of these to Grand Central after ESA opening day would be a waste of capacity there, for instance, it could still have the other two terminate at FBA/Brooklyn without negatively impacting other branches' traffic at Jamica.