Gateway Project: Possible WOH Penn Access (Secaucus Loop)

For those disappointed at the lack of rail on the TZB into GCT, there's always Penn. I posted this in NJT Secaucus Loop:

In the news: LoHud

The headline concerns Metro North service operated by NJT, but it's really an NJT improvement. Still, I might post this in MNRR for grins and giggles...

Direct service to Penn Station envisioned from Rockland and Orange

WASHINGTON – Rail commuters from New York's Rockland and Orange counties and parts of Bergen County in New Jersey would get direct service to New York Penn Station as part of a larger plan for two new tunnels under the Hudson River, New York Sen. Chuck Schumer said Wednesday.

Those commuters on NJ Transit's Pascack Valley, Bergen County and Main lines and the Metro-North Port Jervis line currently switch trains in Secaucus to get to Penn Station in midtown Manhattan. Or they continue to Hoboken to switch to Path trains into lower Manhattan.

The $20 billion Gateway project for the new tunnels and improved approaches to them could include a $800 million Secaucus Loop taking riders directly to Penn Station, Schumer said.

Development of the Secaucus Loop would raise property values in Rockland and Orange counties and increase tourism from New York City to sites such as West Point, he predicted.

Oh, to foam about the through running possibilities!

it all depends on who envisions this, betya it is not MTA.

In theory, this would make more sense than the TZB connection to GCT as I'm sure it would be a faster ride to NYC. If it comes at the expense of adding more stops in NJ to try to shoehorn more people into an overcrowded train station, then I think you'd be better off leaving things as they are, and use the money to add more trains at various times during the day to Hoboken.

SecaucusJunction wrote:In theory, this would make more sense than the TZB connection to GCT as I'm sure it would be a faster ride to NYC. If it comes at the expense of adding more stops in NJ to try to shoehorn more people into an overcrowded train station, then I think you'd be better off leaving things as they are, and use the money to add more trains at various times during the day to Hoboken.

Hudson originates some trains at Irvington during the morning rush, and a couple CH trains could be routed over the TZB in the evening. If the plan to extend it along 287 happened, there are plenty of NWP slots on Hudson which could goto TZB. Since the TZB line would be diesel, running times would mean 3-4 track Hudson line is a better fit than the 2 track Harlem line.

SJ to Penn is packed like a subway train, PATH is better since you will get a seat. Would Gateway tunnel have enough platform capacity at NYP to serve Hoboken Div? Gateway looks to be designed more for renovating the existing 2 tunnels and Amtrak's late LD trains and Midtown Direct. Penn South is a separate phase.

bulk88 wrote: SJ to Penn is packed like a subway train,

Which is why we are building more tunnels so more trains can go to Manhattan....

bulk88 wrote: PATH is better since you will get a seat.

Maybe at 9 at night in the middle of the week. Rush hour not so much. And it takes a lot longer to get to Midtown.

bulk88 wrote: Would Gateway tunnel have enough platform capacity at NYP to serve Hoboken Div?

Yes which is why the long range plan is to send trains from Port Jervis, Suffern, Spring Valley, Bay Head, Bound Brook, someday Scranton and Allentown, to Penn Station. Some of the trains will still go to Hoboken because people will still be working down on Wall Street. If you are going downtown changing to PATH in Hoboken is faster than changing to the subway in Penn Station. Until we bore a tunnel from Jersey City to Brooklyn and the suburban trains go directly to Wall Street.

bulk88 wrote: Gateway looks to be designed more for renovating the existing 2 tunnels and Amtrak's late LD trains and Midtown Direct. Penn South is a separate phase.

If they don't build more platforms there's no place for the trains in the new tunnels to go. Until they build a new tunnel there's enough platform. The two are intimately tied to one another.