I was thinking about this after reading the recent article in Trains about the NY and Atlantic that runs over much of the LIRR. Fascinating article.
And then one of the moderators (I think it was Jeff Smith) properly tried to redirect a discussion back away from freight through NYP.
BUT, this got me thinking:
Let be be clear at the start: I am NOT advocating freight through the current North River tunnels and NYP as is. That is, I think a non-starter in any shape/form.
But, what if we thought outside the box a bit, or more accurately the current tubes.
The idea of having the new tunnels large enough Superliner equipment has come up, but that's fraught with other issues. But got me thinking: What if you did make them large enough for standard height freight and modified ONE track through NYP to have movable platforms (like a few of the subway lines) so that a night you could bring some freight through. You still have the issue of the East River tunnels I know.
Then, later, you went with the option that was looked at one point (not sure the current status) and have one of the new tunnels split and have a lower level tunnel directly to Queens.
So stage 1:
And I'd mostly agree.
But consider this, Long Island right now has two routes for freight:
The current cross harbor barge limited to 14 cars (though the Port Authority is looking to replace it with 2 18 car capacity) or via CSX through a route that ultimately means crossing the Hudson just south of Albany, a 280 mile (or so) detour.
Again, "So?"
Funding: That's why. Between Federal funds and perhaps the freight railroads kicking in additional money to open up the LI market more, you now have a way to provide additional funding to build the tunnels.
It's an unholy alliance of bedmates, but honestly, if it'll get you the money, I think you should consider it.
My SWAG on operational costs is even if you have to break down say a 60 car freight trains into 3 20 car trains and pull each through NYP at night, that's going to cost less than breaking down into 6 car strings, loading them 1 at a time onto a barge, and then re-assembling them at the far end.
My first real objection honestly, is the East River tunnels. I'm not sure any would work in their current config, so you might end up adding a 5th, and that, with the North River and platform modifications would probably eat up any additional funds you might receive. On the other hand, you now have 5 tunnels instead of 4.
And then one of the moderators (I think it was Jeff Smith) properly tried to redirect a discussion back away from freight through NYP.
BUT, this got me thinking:
Let be be clear at the start: I am NOT advocating freight through the current North River tunnels and NYP as is. That is, I think a non-starter in any shape/form.
But, what if we thought outside the box a bit, or more accurately the current tubes.
The idea of having the new tunnels large enough Superliner equipment has come up, but that's fraught with other issues. But got me thinking: What if you did make them large enough for standard height freight and modified ONE track through NYP to have movable platforms (like a few of the subway lines) so that a night you could bring some freight through. You still have the issue of the East River tunnels I know.
Then, later, you went with the option that was looked at one point (not sure the current status) and have one of the new tunnels split and have a lower level tunnel directly to Queens.
So stage 1:
- Build 1 of the 2 new tunnels slightly larger to accommodate freight to LI.
- Modify one track in NYP so freight can run through to one of the southern East River tunnels
- Build "lower" level tunnel under Manhattan to connect to new North River Tunnel, that connects directly to Queens.
And I'd mostly agree.
But consider this, Long Island right now has two routes for freight:
The current cross harbor barge limited to 14 cars (though the Port Authority is looking to replace it with 2 18 car capacity) or via CSX through a route that ultimately means crossing the Hudson just south of Albany, a 280 mile (or so) detour.
Again, "So?"
Funding: That's why. Between Federal funds and perhaps the freight railroads kicking in additional money to open up the LI market more, you now have a way to provide additional funding to build the tunnels.
It's an unholy alliance of bedmates, but honestly, if it'll get you the money, I think you should consider it.
My SWAG on operational costs is even if you have to break down say a 60 car freight trains into 3 20 car trains and pull each through NYP at night, that's going to cost less than breaking down into 6 car strings, loading them 1 at a time onto a barge, and then re-assembling them at the far end.
My first real objection honestly, is the East River tunnels. I'm not sure any would work in their current config, so you might end up adding a 5th, and that, with the North River and platform modifications would probably eat up any additional funds you might receive. On the other hand, you now have 5 tunnels instead of 4.
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adds 10% in overhead (again, of course a complete SWAG) and you remove that by going direct, you may see increased traffic. You also add the potential of thru traffic to southern New England.
