Fredrick Douglass Tunnel (Replacement of the Baltimore and Potomac B&P Tunnel)

With Amtrak's invisible accounting tricks would the costs of properly setting up these meeting reduce someone's bonus?

Amtrak Awards Two Contracts for Frederick Douglass Tunnel Program

Today, Amtrak announced it has awarded two contracts for the Frederick Douglass Tunnel Program. According to the news release, Amtrak has selected Clark Construction/Stacy and Witbeck Joint Venture “as the first of three major construction contractors for this phase of construction to deliver the program.” This follows a “competitive procurement” that began in June of 2022 “for the Southern Approach construction package.”

Amtrak awards tunnel construction contract to a Kiewit/J.F. Shea Joint Venture

BALTIMORE – Amtrak has achieved a major milestone for the Frederick Douglass Tunnel Program with the selection of a Kiewit/J.F. Shea Joint Venture to build the brand new, state-of-the-art passenger rail tunnel that will serve electrified Amtrak and MARC commuter trains.

“We are one step closer to unlocking the biggest passenger rail bottleneck on the Northeast Corridor between Washington, D.C. and New Jersey,” said Amtrak Executive Vice President, Capital Delivery Laura Mason. “This would not be possible without historic funding through the Infrastructure Investment & Jobs Act, as well as continued support from the Biden-Harris Administration, FRA and our funding partners at Maryland Department of Transportation Maryland Transit Administration (MDOT MTA).”

...

The third and final construction contract to “fit out” the Frederick Douglass Tunnel with tracks, rail systems and more will be announced at a future date, with an anticipated award in 2025/2026. Amtrak will also soon select a Delivery Partner to coordinate and support the successful execution of the Program.

Construction of the new tunnel is being delivered through the innovative Construction Manager At-Risk (CMAR) delivery method, which improves project delivery time and allows design, pre-construction and other work to proceed simultaneously.

Too bad we had to wait so long.

How is het possible that the construction of the new 2 mile tunnel take almost 10 years. Even the HTP has only 3 years digging time.

SRich wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:42 am How is het possible that the construction of the new 2 mile tunnel take almost 10 years. Even the HTP has only 3 years digging time.

I think it's because they need to do massive track realignments on the south side, while maintaining service. I don't think the actual drilling will take 9 years.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:54 am

SRich wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:42 am How is het possible that the construction of the new 2 mile tunnel take almost 10 years. Even the HTP has only 3 years digging time.

I think it's because they need to do massive track realignments on the south side, while maintaining service. I don't think the actual drilling will take 9 years.

Not only the track realignment, but also (from posted plans):

• Add a full four track interlock between the Gwynn Falls and West Baltimore MARC
• Smooth out the curve that West Baltimore MARC station is in.
• Rebuild the station. It's gotta move west a bit.
• Build a "outer to inner" interlock at the portal to the tunnels north of the MARC station.
• Rebuild CHARLES interlock to connect to the new portal.

Delays come mainly from relocating utilities. You have no idea how hard it is to get utilities to co-operate. Any of the work comes out of the utilities profits pockets. They will delay at every chance. (emergency's a great delay) . Just to locate a known utility/. Conveniently cannot locate. then there will be the few that bored under the PRR and failed to inform that RR. Some utilities that I delt with would often not apply for a construction permit until the last moment.

Then there will be the accidents that break the utility with all the consequences.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:28 pm

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:54 am

SRich wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:42 am How is het possible that the construction of the new 2 mile tunnel take almost 10 years. Even the HTP has only 3 years digging time.

I think it's because they need to do massive track realignments on the south side, while maintaining service. I don't think the actual drilling will take 9 years.

Not only the track realignment, but also (from posted plans):

• Add a full four track interlock between the Gwynn Falls and West Baltimore MARC
• Smooth out the curve that West Baltimore MARC station is in.
• Rebuild the station. It's gotta move west a bit.
• Build a "outer to inner" interlock at the portal to the tunnels north of the MARC station.
• Rebuild CHARLES interlock to connect to the new portal.

It occurs to me that MTA has to renengineer the West Baltimore terminal. The current design has some issues, to address.
And it's not putting into consideration connectively with some form of the red line, not to mention neighborhood .
https://www.hubwestbaltimore.org/west-b ... rc-station

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 11:51 am It occurs to me that MTA has to renengineer the West Baltimore terminal. The current design has some issues, to address.
And it's not putting into consideration connectively with some form of the red line, not to mention neighborhood .
https://www.hubwestbaltimore.org/west-b ... rc-station

It would need updating anyway because West Baltimore station is now a transit hub, with handicapped parking closest to station and next to a bus loop. See Google Maps Satellite view for that.

It goes without saying that any improvements are better than what the station has now: a low platform that only fits one pair of doors with no handicapped access.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:00 pm

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 11:51 am It occurs to me that MTA has to renengineer the West Baltimore terminal. The current design has some issues, to address.
And it's not putting into consideration connectively with some form of the red line, not to mention neighborhood .
https://www.hubwestbaltimore.org/west-b ... rc-station

It would need updating anyway because West Baltimore station is now a transit hub, with handicapped parking closest to station and next to a bus loop. See Google Maps Satellite view for that.

It goes without saying that any improvements are better than what the station has now: a low platform that only fits one pair of doors with no handicapped access.

I live not far from there, and have driven by it. It's a transit hub, which still has people boarding at the curb, unprotected from elements. Not the best design for a transit hub. I've also used the station before. I've feeling they didn't expect it to be used as much as it is when they phased out the other western baltimore stations.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:05 am I live not far from there, and have driven by it. It's a transit hub, which still has people boarding at the curb, unprotected from elements. Not the best design for a transit hub. I've also used the station before. I've feeling they didn't expect it to be used as much as it is when they phased out the other western baltimore stations.

I won't dispute that it could be better, but I think it was a scramble when Gov. Hogan cancelled the Red Line in favor of reshuffling the bus service and calling it "Link". Unfortunately (as I wrote in a letter to the editor that got published) all it really did was identify where grade separated heavy rail should be put in, throw in some bus lanes for token mitigating measures, and turned West Baltimore MARC into a "proper" transit hub (one where you can catch a bus safely from instead of crossing US 40). Oh, and it kicked the can down the line.

Yeah, where's Gov. Shaefer when you need him.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:20 am

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:05 am I live not far from there, and have driven by it. It's a transit hub, which still has people boarding at the curb, unprotected from elements. Not the best design for a transit hub. I've also used the station before. I've feeling they didn't expect it to be used as much as it is when they phased out the other western baltimore stations.

I won't dispute that it could be better, but I think it was a scramble when Gov. Hogan cancelled the Red Line in favor of reshuffling the bus service and calling it "Link". Unfortunately (as I wrote in a letter to the editor that got published) all it really did was identify where grade separated heavy rail should be put in, throw in some bus lanes for token mitigating measures, and turned West Baltimore MARC into a "proper" transit hub (one where you can catch a bus safely from instead of crossing US 40). Oh, and it kicked the can down the line.

Yeah, where's Gov. Shaefer when you need him.

And Now The Can needs to be made into something.
The Transit Union had a good Bus Rapid Transit plan which would have cost another 100 million than the "Link", but actually be at least Silver standard BRT in places. I think you may recall a lot was put into a website which tracked buses , with a number for each stop, which disappeared in favor of the Transit app. Slow Clap, money well spent, MTA.
There's still time for designing a station that's integrated into the neighborhood, and transit, instead of an Ad Hoc park and ride station.


Let's not forget that that "death star" trench east of the station went in under DonnyBoys watch, even though the portion of I70 in Fells point and Canton was already cancelled.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:09 pm And Now The Can needs to be made into something.

The Transit Union had a good Bus Rapid Transit plan which would have cost another 100 million than the "Link", but actually be at least Silver standard BRT in places. I think you may recall a lot was put into a website which tracked buses , with a number for each stop, which disappeared in favor of the Transit app. Slow Clap, money well spent, MTA.
There's still time for designing a station that's integrated into the neighborhood, and transit, instead of an Ad Hoc park and ride station.

Yeah, the site cost money, and I know how well the service contracts are written from my time working at MTA (read: not very well). Transit meanwhile had an app-based solution, and seriously, you're not pulling out a laptop to find where your bus is at the bus stop; you're using your phone. So dropping the web site for Transit saved that money to get the actual bus tracking system used by dispatch upgraded so it could track more buses.

Let's not forget that that "death star" trench east of the station went in under DonnyBoys watch, even though the portion of I70 in Fells point and Canton was already cancelled.

...and the Highway to Nowhere. Yeah, I bet that the contract was executed and money paid for that right before the MD General Assembly cut funding to I-70 into the city.

At least they got the money to rebuild the station before the cuts come in.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 4:10 pm

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:09 pm And Now The Can needs to be made into something.

The Transit Union had a good Bus Rapid Transit plan which would have cost another 100 million than the "Link", but actually be at least Silver standard BRT in places. I think you may recall a lot was put into a website which tracked buses , with a number for each stop, which disappeared in favor of the Transit app. Slow Clap, money well spent, MTA.
There's still time for designing a station that's integrated into the neighborhood, and transit, instead of an Ad Hoc park and ride station.

Yeah, the site cost money, and I know how well the service contracts are written from my time working at MTA (read: not very well). Transit meanwhile had an app-based solution, and seriously, you're not pulling out a laptop to find where your bus is at the bus stop; you're using your phone. So dropping the web site for Transit saved that money to get the actual bus tracking system used by dispatch upgraded so it could track more buses.

Let's not forget that that "death star" trench east of the station went in under DonnyBoys watch, even though the portion of I70 in Fells point and Canton was already cancelled.

...and the Highway to Nowhere. Yeah, I bet that the contract was executed and money paid for that right before the MD General Assembly cut funding to I-70 into the city.

At least they got the money to rebuild the station before the cuts come in.

The extant portion of the now-defunct Interstate 170 was built over a four year period from 1975 to 1979. It wasn’t until 1983 before all incomplete Interstate highway segments in the city were cancelled (including the routing of Interstate 83 through Fells Point and Canton) and the funds reallocated to rebuild President Street south of I-83’s terminus and construct Interstates 97, 370 and 595.

Regarding West Baltimore itself, I think the best use for the freeway site now is to demolish it and replace it with the necessary parking and transit infrastructure needed to build up the station as a viable commuter hub in its own right. With the right planning and the proximity to the CBD, it could be a valuable alternative to Baltimore Penn within the next 10-15 years (?).