Fifty Years Ago Today

No, it wasn't when "Sergeant Pepper taught the band to play", but as Art Huneke puts it so well on his website, "The music died". This is the anniversary of the end of LIRR steam.
Please get behind Firends of 35 and the RMLI in their efforts to reunite the LIRR with its glorious heritage.
Long Island Rail Road saved two G5's and both are excellent candidates for simultaneous operation. Meeting this goal will herald a comeback for great mainline steam operations once again. Get involved in any way you possibly can. Long Island steam needs you!!!

I hope that they will be able get one, but hopefully both of these steamers running again. But and a Big but (not butt), where will these engines run? Do you really believe the LIRR/MTA will allow a steam engine to run on their rails? Don’t get me wrong, I want to see this happen like everyone else. It’s just this Rail Road won’t let it! Why? Ask them and you’ll get reasons from A to Z. Yes I know insurance is a big one, but if one of the groups could get the bond, I believe the MTA will think of something else.
Though you have the sister RR, the MetroNorth, who is running a fan trip for the end of the FL9s, that’s ok for them, but the LIRR can’t do the same!
Can you imagine a Steam Fan Trip say, stating from Ronkonkoma to Greenport and back? Running only on the weekends, I bet it would be sold out way ahead of time. You’d probably have to inherit the tickets!
It all has to start by asking the Rail Road, but don’t be surprised if they tell you to run the engine on the museum tracks in Riverhead back and forth a few times.


Mike

This is probably a crazy idea, but would it be possible to fund purchasing any of the exsisting right of ways which aren't in use by revenue trains on the LIRR? I bet there would be a lot of political bs involved, but it's just a thought.

ROWS are possible and i beleive thats what friends of 35 wanted to do with the secondary. that dream is all but dust now. if the LIRR is requireing dich lights and other FRA class I regulations for the 39/5 to be installed before operation that is insight that they will be alowing it to operate on their trackage. acording to the code of regulations locomotives built pre 1950 are NOT reguired dich lights to run. on the main, how ever does needs to have its boiler (preasure/saftety ect..) and running gear up to class one regulations.

LIRR 39 no ancilary lights required.
LIRR1556 lights Required.

LIRR would probly at first be spectical to anything and just give operating rights to the tracks in the yard and not alowing 39 on the main. but after she passes all tests and again can get qualified on the LIRR 39 and 35 can both be used anywhere on the system.

I understand the skepticism that people bring forth, but I think nothing should be ruled out in the future. You may be surprised to learn that it is acceptable to the LIRR and MTA, once the loco is up to snuff and inspected. It may turn out that runs from Riverhead to Greenport and back are sanctioned. It may turn out that system wide specials are permitted with certain expectations put forth by the LIRR.

I want to make a point here, and please understand that this is not a slap at any one person or group. When you go into a situation with defeat aforethought, when you assume the worst is the minimum, you are going to get nowhere. I've heard it about every project that involves restoration, hard work, and compromise. Most recently, we've heard why P54's will never come back to the LIRR, why the last RS1 is out of reach, why friction trucks can't be replaced. For gosh sakes, get an action plan together and go forward. Don't accept "no" as the standard answer. Listen to what others say and then respond politely. Ask for help. Offer help. You may find that a company that is in business to transport the public isn't a bunch of cold-hearted weasels, but men and women who are paid to do a job. You may even find out that they, like you, would love to see these things made possible.

Do everyone who desires seeing a steam revival on Long Island's steel arteries a favor; negate the negative.

the negativeism is severly hindering any potencial to any operation, restoraton of railroad equipment is a long, expensive and tedious process, and to our dismay we are getting an abundance of EX LIRR equipt ready for the torch and were not even ready to accpet it. one thought was to possibly aquire some ACMUs and make then diesel hauled so we can have some form of excursion trains at RMLI, all that would be needed was 2 -4 cars, but NO that could not happen, partly because of money, and partly because of "they are not LIRR peices of equiptment" but this "they are not LIRR peices of equiptment" attitude is un acceptable as atleast the non lirr ACMUs could have been painted into the worlds fair colors and made to LOOK like LIRR cars to the public that will ride them on the weekends at RMLI, im shure if something was done with MN and no FICX since some are STILL in NYS. the LIRR Would provide an engine and a crew for the 2 days a week or even just saturdays.

for example... we alrady have 2 acmu's.
LIRR provides us 1 MP15 and a crew to operate the engine between Riverhead and greenport
this is not ACTION witch is NOT present at RMLI or friends of 35s meuseum. ACTION will bring in more people to ride these cars and more people bring in money to restore the LIRR equiptment.
Does any one agree?

for thoes in the know, what would it take to bring a minimum of 2-4 ACMUs to the LIRR to be ran in the DAY only behind 1 MP15?

i would asume that the interior lights would not be a huge issue if daylight only operation would take place. its something running to attract an intrest?

also from thoes in the know, would MN be able to talk to FICX to keep atleast 4 more acmu's or would either meuseum have to aquire FICXs # on there own and make some kind of and inticeing deal?

and as i said plenty times before, today 10-16-05 was the day that atleast ONE steamengine should have been runningm and if there was alot of intrest in probly could have been a reality. maby a 51 year anaversery???

Richard:
I support you in your statements about being positve. It would likely not be an easy task; however, in time, reason and a well articulated presentation to those who would decide this issue could very well sway LIRR, MTA et al to give approval to the safe operation of both the 35 and 39 on LIRR ROW.

Obviously, lobbying those who will decide this issue and political leaders on Long Island would be helpful. Not being familiar with current politics on Long Island (I left in 1968), I cannot suggest whom to lobby - although I am aware that Steve Levy was the Suffolk County Executive that had something to do with signing a check that got the 39 into the boiler work that is being done. I have no idea as to how much influence he might have with LIRR/MTA in paving the way for steam operations on Long Island again - if in fact he is even sympathetic to our cause.
Nothing would please me more than to see Clair Harrison (Richie Harrison's widow) watch the 39 under, steam, pull away from Riverhead on its first run since this date in 1955.

Again, I am many miles from Long Island. I would be happy to lend my support by corresponding with those who will ultimately decide this concern of ours if a letter-writing effort is initiated.

I feel confident that a well thought-out and courteous approach to this issue will succeed.

Thanks Richard for addressing this topic. Those of us old fellas that remember (and rode on ) 39 and 35 in their assignments years ago will be forever grateful to those who carry this torch to get those fires lit - and running on LIRR ROW.

Well Said Pappy.

Im all with it.

Good evening all,

Richard and CLiner have the right idea. I have a saying I like to use around projects I'm working on. Those of you who've had the "pleasure" to work with me probably remember hearing it at least once:

"This is like eating a pie! You can't eat the whole thing without getting sick, let's eat one piece at a time. We'll finish it!."

Obviously, every major project needs some pre-planning and forthought. Without that you have no goal to move toward. At any given time during the project, to have ALL the hard answers to every question that comes up is unreasonable.

But we do have a "pre-plan" for 39, a "vision" if you will. "The Dream!" That vision has been described in this forum on occasion and I wrote a two issue article on it in the RMLI "Postboy." Yes, it involves running an excursion train from Riverhead to Greenport. Yes, working with current weekend schedules we have a suggested timetable. There is a working outline for Engine 39 - at least on paper - and it "looks good on paper!"

But before we talk seriously about these plans, we need to have an operating engine. That piece of pie is being eaten right now with the ISTEA alamode. There will be some left over crumbs that have to be consumed, primarily an oil burner and finishing the work in progress on the drivetrain.

The next piece of pie to eat is getting the boiler up with steam, and getting certified operators to run her. There are certified steam engineers that could be persuaded. There are also folks willing to go get training - a few LIRR engineers might be interested too.

That brings us to the next piece of pie. No doubt, as long as the MTA/LIRR owns the tracks on the East End, there will have to be LIRR personnel in charge of the train. We're talking about a "special" that a LIRR pilot engineer and conductor would have an opportunity to bid on with the RMLI paying the LIRR for the service.

Another piece of pie is getting the turntables at Greenport and Riverhead in operating condition to turn the engine or making concessions to run #39 tender forward back to Riverhead. (Not my idea of a good time - but we'll have to see.) There are run around tracks at Riverhead and Greenport to do that.

WHEW!!!! See what I mean - try to eat all these pieces and we get mentally bogged down with the whole pie. We get sick and "can't think straight." Soon, the pie is consuming us. I'm optomistic that each piece of the pie can be eaten in good time. Patience is the key, working hard, making friends, showing people that "we can do it" - all gets us toward our goal of seeing steam on Long Island again.

Let's shelve the doubts and continue to put our energy into the project(s) of the Museum. We can do it!

de Don, n2qhvRMLI

I believe steam will once again roam Long Island. Ditch lights on 35 and 39? FRA requires it. UP has them on 3985 and 844. Santa Fe 3751 has them, I don't think SP4449 does becouse it has the Mars light but that wouldnot look right on LIRR steam anyways. Finding qualified steam crews should not be a problem either as there are many who are qualified and would travel all over the county to run main line steam
I firmly believe what is important is to get our youths heavily involved in the overhaul and mantenance of these machines, be it diesel or steam. I am talking about starting at the 14 or 15 yeal old range. Treat them as adults, with respect and dignity, give them meaningfull tasks to perform, teach them the skills that they will need to carry on when the "old heads" can't do it anymore, but most of all, make them feel welcome and appriciated for thier efforts. All to often I have seen museum groups become 'old guys' clubs. The youth are more often ignored or worse, driven off.
See you all this Saturday, Oct 22 at RMLI. I'll be the old fart with the two young guys teaching them the finer points of Alco 244 engine maintenace. Anyone else up for the challenge? Lets make smoke!

Paul, you are dead on with the points of the young guys being "less respected or less welcome" and that attitude needs to change completely. as for the 14/15 year olds doing work im shure something can be done, but I would have to beleive it would have to be an organised work session with 1-2 instructors and a small group of young teens to do work and learn.
Maby some HS auto shops with students intrested in the diesel engine can put out flyers and send these students to RMLI on weekends or even during the week for an organized work session. ex. 1 instructor- 5 students. the students would be required to pass a safety rule test and any horse play will result in a warning and or means of disqualifacation from the program.
hey thats an idea we should look into.

I would be willing to donate use of bedroom lounge car MOUNT VERNON for first class accomodations on a fund raising excursion. The car meets all FRA, Amtrak and Via Rail Canada requirements; I expect it meets LIRR clearances as it meets both the Amtrak New York terminal and Metro North system clearances. Since LIRR does not appear to be inclined to operate special train excursions with private varnish, it may have to be a New York - Albany and return excursion behind an Amtrak consist, rather than on the LIRR.

MOUNT VERNON could be the third Union Pacific streamliner car to operate on LIRR ... the first two being the two lightweight x-UP club lounge cars LIRR 2072 TUCKAPAUSHA and LIRR 2073 TUCKAHOE that were part of the parlor car fleet from 1969 thru the mid 1970s.

http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com

Please don't think I'm nothing but negative about this whole thing, I'm not! It's just not waiting to get slammed with bad news. I'm not a steam person, but to have one running on Long Island, how can you not want that? Now we got to get that RS1 to back up the steamer.

Mike

C-Liner, that is a great idea! In fact, whole troops of Scouts, Girl and Boy would likely be glad to help out with cleaning and painting. This is the kind of thinking that helps get stuff done. WHo n-know? You might even make a railfan or two?
These kids can't be expected to do the hard labor, but I'm betting they would love to help with limited numbers of chores that need to get done, but simply take up time.

The offer of the private car for an excursion is another generous point. You guys can move forward on these events and do well to build up your credibility at the same time. Let the LIRR run the specifics and you guys sell the tickets. Think it out, build a comradery with the company for excursions. Jamaica to Greenport with stops at the RMLI, and maybe a tour of a facility.