Fastest trains to Montauk and Greenport?

I know that in the Spanish American War (1898) Montauk was a big troop embarkation port, and that the LIRR then tried to develop Montauk as a major port, running what was described as "fast" service from LIC to Montauk. However, I don't know how fast those trains really were.
Can anyone tell us what the fastest service to Montauk and Greenport was, and what years those speeds were attained? For purposes of this query, I don't care whether the western terminus of the trains was LIC, Jamaica, Penn Station, etc. I'm just trying to figure out the fastest the LIRR ever made it to the eastern end of Long Island.

I had researched this once before for someone else on the Forum and, after checking timetables from the 1920s up to the 1970s, the time for the trips to Montauk all took about the same period of time, within 5-10 minutes of each other.

Also remember this: while the railroad DID go to Montauk starting in 1895, most of the trains terminated at Amagansett in the early days.

Amagansett was a major terminal, with locomotive facilities and a boarding house for train crews.

Very few trains went all the way east.

My system timetable from 1899 shows one train eastbound to Montauk (#11) leaving L. I. City at 8:36 am, arriving at Montauk at 12:24 pm.

That's it!!! All others terminating at Amagansett.

You can see from the ride time that the run was no better than it was in later years!

Dave Keller

If they tried to make a success of Montauk as a port after the Spanish American War, I'd expect that 1899 might not have been soon enough to show any effect on the LIRR. I believe the effort was abandoned around 1912, so I'd think 1910 might be a good year to investigate.

According to Ron Ziel's book, "Steel Rails to the Sunrise", the attempt at developing Montauk into a port of entry effectively died before the turn of the century when Austin Corbin was killed. Ziel states that trains were advertised to run from Hunter's Point in LIC to Montauk as "105 miles in 106 minutes", though no refernce is made to a particular train or timetable. The plan to turn Montauk into a resort was not the LIRR's, but a private developer named Carl Fischer.

Since I grew up on the north fork I was always fascinated with the main line. I've got a 1939 timetable at home and the trains to Greenport traveled much faster than they do today & made more stops as well. I'll look this evening and post it.

de402--Did you ever find your 1939 timetable? I'm curious what the fastest schedule to Greenport was.
Also, does anyone know what the current speed limit is between Ronkonkoma and Greenport?

I think 45

Well if we still had the east port to mannor extention in service, a 1-2hr trip from jamaica to montauk would be more possible.

but thats only a far dream that ONCE and probly NEVER will be reality again.

Back when the LIRR was at its prime and the Manorville-Eastport branch was in 100% use on ALMOST ALL Montauk trains and more stops were made along the way, track conditions were better out east and speeds were a bit higher, as well as the on-time percentage rate being top-notch, the timetables still showed a 4 hour (+/-) run to Montauk.

Now . . . had they had all those things in their favor and did not have to stop to load and unload express and baggage, chances are their scheduled run times would have been shorter, but by how much more? Who knows? Certainly not by 50%, though!

That's the age-old problem of the "blivet." 10 pounds of you-know-what stuffed in a 5-pound bag!

Just can't be done!

Dave Keller

NIMBYkiller wrote:I think 45

Why 45? Can't they go faster?

Frank wrote:

NIMBYkiller wrote:I think 45

Why 45? Can't they go faster?

They'd probably break something... Actually the MAS east of KO to LD is 45 and from LD to GY is 40. Why? I guess the consensus is that with all the grade crossings that are along the ROW somebody or some trespasser in a car etc would more likely get hit (kind of unlikely considering the amount of service). Maybe they chose that speed because the old crap they called equipment got better gallons to the mile at that speed(sarcasm)? Maybe the DE's getter better gallons to the mile at that speed? Who knows...

There used to be cows in Jamesport or Aquebogue to contend with and other assorted "wildlife" along the tracks. There is little if any protection other than the crossbucks & gates in many places, as the route is all unsignaled. Making matters worse, the grade crossings are timed for like 20-mph or something and aren't tuned for higher speed.

While I do enjoy the ride, it is excruciatingly slow, especially on the weekends when it takes almost 3 hours to get back to NYC. Hardly 21st century and more like 19th.. Actually hardly like the 19th either. Especially when you do the math, the near billion dollar fiasco known as the DE&M/C series cars and locomotives go no faster (average speed) than the hand-me down junk the PRR did not want back in the day.

This will get me in trouble, but I think that the GY train should (fridays and weekends) terminate at Jamaica. Essentially a born again SI express. THis way when one of those EMD junkers pukes, they can at least get one out of the coach yards instead of putting us on a yellow school bus at KO.

http://ericstyrer2.com/lirr_1937_timetable.png

I'd rather see it start/end at LIC or NYP. It could run non-stop to Jamaica, then Mineola, Hicksville, maybe a stop or 2 before Ronkonkoma, Ronkonkoma, all stops to Greenport. Or maybe even non-stop from Ronkonkoma to Riverhead.

Fix the road bed, Lay CWR and rais the MAS.

80 MAS to GY ecpet where posted ie- curves and so on. re build mannorville to east port and put in a "Y" at both ends and you have your self a money making system. the possibility to go to MY from GY with out having to even leave suffolk. now thats money in the MTA's pockets.

the LIRR has be striped of all there intra island service and thats screwing them left and right. no one is seeing this albany and NIMBY land.

A couple of things...

Passenger MAS from KO to MR is 45 MPH, not to LD. 40 MPH east of MR.

The speed is also lower due to the numerous unprotected farmers crossings, particularly east of LD. Crossings that are protected are only coded for 45 MPH running. There is nothing wrong with the track and roadbed.

Jay

Oh, so then its a rewireing job, and a job that would require more protection installed before the MAS is raised to 60+ (not to happen in the near future)