Fastest times between PHL and CHI

What was the PRR's fastest time between PHL and CHI? And, to keep this related to Amtrak, why does it now take the (as quoted by Amtrak) 24 hours to get between the two cities on the no layovers Cardinal?

A whole day to get to Chicago seems a little much, considering you can drive in about 3/4 the time.

not to get off topic but that's interesting

I didn't know the Broadway Limited didn't serve 30th street. As a result, did the train maintain the same direction unlike the East West trains of today which go in "reverse" when departing from philly bound for points west?

Yes.

The Broadway left North Philly and used the New York-Pittsburgh subway at Zoo Junction to get directly onto the Main Line without stopping or changing direction.

Gilbert, my March 1956 "Official Guide" checks you on the 14'03" EB, but has the westbound time at 14'24".

That was one hot train! And interestingly, the "General" (#48/49) was only a half hour slower.

In 1956, the PRR managed to run seven trains a day, each way, between New York and Chicago (with two PIT-CHI trains, plus additional NYP - PIT and PHL - PIT trains), and presumably run freight as well -- and run most everything on time.

We've fallen a long way from that time.

What was the fastest PRR time N. Philly to Chgo historically, and what was the best Amtrak did post 1971?

I seem to remember that the fastest NY - CHG times were somewheres just under 16 hours on both the Central and PRR sometime mid 20th Century? IIRC, early Amtrak kept pretty much to the old PRR/NYC schedules?

According to my NYC public TT dated 11*5*67, the 20th Century ran GCT-LaSalle St. in 16' 40" (depart GCT 6PM Eastern, arrive LaSalle 9:40 AM Central) but only made limited stops.

We want the fastest time so we can bash Amtrak with it. Ho hum.

I'd like something more useful: the time Penn Central took to transport passengers from Philadelphia to Chicago at the eve of Amtrak. Hands on timetables PLACE!

I don't have a late Penn Central timetable handy at the moment -- most of my paper collection from that era is in storage at another location -- but maybe Mr. Fels would settle for Amtrak's timings effective July 12, 1971. At that time westbound #49 ran North Philadelphia- Chicago in 15 hours 39 minutes, and eastbound #48 was scheduled for 15 hours 21 minutes. That was, of course, on Penn Central-owned track, which actually would get a lot worse in the mid-70s, several years after Amtrak had assumed responsibility for the service. The worst period for that route was actually in the early Conrail days, when the full effect of years of deferred maintenance finally hit the line west of Pittsburgh and the "Broadway" regularly ran hours late.

Two things to consider when comparing the fallen flags' flagship trains to Amtrak's recent and current offerings:

The PRR and the NYC charged an "extra fare" premium to occupy space on their respective Broadway and 20th Century Limiteds. (Pullman offerings only on the PRR till close to the end, thank you very much!)

Both trains made EXTREMELY limited stops during the course of their runs between endpoints.

Conversely, Amtrak charges no "premium" just for the privilege of riding over these routes, and the Three Rivers, Pennsylvanian and Lake Shore Limited all make MANY more stops than the Broadway or the Century ever did.

QueenLNR8 wrote:What was the PRR's fastest time between PHL and CHI? And, to keep this related to Amtrak, why does it now take the (as quoted by Amtrak) 24 hours to get between the two cities on the no layovers Cardinal?

Huh? This is an apples/oranges comparison. Comparing old trains running on the PRR main line to the Cardinal which operates through Washington DC and on a completely different line is invalid. It would be like comparing the Pennsylvanian with the Erie Limited...

Oops. My mistake. I didn't realize that the Cardinal uses WAS as the intermediate point. What is the current Amtrak train that runs NYP-CHI, no WAS at all? And, what is its fastest time compared to the PRR Broadway?

On the former PRR, that train would be the Three Rivers. Actual running times vary, or so I have been told. (Worth a trip of my own in the future though...)

>What is the current Amtrak train that runs NYP-CHI, no WAS at all? And, what is its fastest time compared to the PRR Broadway?

The Lake Shore Limited, which runs NYP-CHI via Albany and Buffalo is scheduled for 19:30 westbound and 17:50 eastbound. However, the train runs late so often that wags call it the "Late for Sure Limited."

The best time offered by the Pennsy's Broadway Limited was 15:30 on the eastbound. I don't know whether rival New York Central's 20th Century Limited matched this.


Responding to Mr. Fels notion that the aim of this thread is to "bash" Amtrak for not offering better times on the NYP - CHI run (and PHL - CHI), slower times are more a function of freight RR conditions than Amtrak's operating practices, IMHO. Even if Amtrak could operate a limited stop service like the Broadway and Century from days of yore (if the market demand were there) it is doubtful they could match or beat the 16:00 schedule that existed for so many years.

<<slower times are more a function of freight RR conditions than Amtrak's operating practices>>

That was exactly my point. I don't hear anybody "bashing" Amtrak. Rather, I think it's telling that today's owner of the PHL - CHI main (NS) cannot run *one* passenger train per day in each direction on a fast schedule reliably, where PRR did so 40 or more years ago.

This situation reflects a deliberate disinvestment in infrastructure. I understand the reasons for it, but I don't have to like the result. Today's railroads have no "surge" capacity and very limited re-route options in the event of derailments or other problems. This affects service quality for both freight and passenger trains, and is a main reason for the downward trend in freight rates since deregulation.

To return to the subject of this thread, note my earlier comment about "The General". In fact, several PRR trains ran on schedules nearly as fast as the Broadway, with more stops and without extra fares.