Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  by arrow
 
Congratulations on the article. It must have been fun to do that map. I used to have a file somewhere where I had outrageous subway service to every point in the five boroughs, also had a tunnel from south ferry to staten island. I'll have to go find it one day.

Thanks for posting the article too.
  by Benjamin
 
JayMan, thanks for the kind reply! What you say is very true. But although a transit beltway is, indeed, "high" fantasy, I thought I should mention a few thoughts regarding this:

1) Parts of a Robert Moses highway beltway already exist in NYC. One way of doing a transit beltway would be to take lanes away from the Moses beltway -- which means no acquisition of right of way, little demolition and little in the way of tunneling, etc. (All important expenses in the construction of subways -- although less so, obviously, for elevateds).

And for transit advocates, I would think turning highways into a transit ways would be a little bit like turning swords into plowshares! (Another reason for people to take delight in this fantasy.)

2) Supposedly (and I don't know if this is really true), monorail systems are less expensive to build than conventional elevateds. (Supposedly they are used pretty commonly in Japan for new mass transit.)

3) While it's true that mass transit has traditionally been built to connect residential areas with downtowns, very often these residential areas have been only barely inhabited when construction was begun. So there was, even then, a bit of speculation involved.

This transit beltway would then be a 21st Century version of the same kind of "build it and they will come" transit mentality. It would be doing for NYC what highway builders all over the country are already doing for existing automobile suburbs -- linking one automobile suburb with another, reducing the need for people with cars to go through the center city.

So although I admit this fantasy is probably a lot less realistic than most other fantasies, there is a "method to the madness." Plus, in some ways "high" fantasies can be more "practical" than more modest fantasies: "Make no small plans: they have no magic to stir men's blood" -- Daniel Burnham.

But in the end, you are probably correct. This fantasy is kind of large and amorphous, so it is kind of hard to get a handle on it and boil it down into something that is tangible and concrete.

- - - -

P.S. -- I meant the Bayonne Bridge, rather than the Goethals. (Although using the Goethals would be a way of connecting JFK Airport to Newark Airport with mass transit.)

  by arrow
 
I agree with Benjamin. If you're going to do it, do it right. I think the next major transit project, whenever that may be, will follow the logic (at least I hope so). Rather than have small construction projects go over a period of many years (that would only benefit some), I would rather see one large project that will benefit a lot more people.

I think NYC can learn from the Boston "Big Dig"...not only from the results of it but from the mistakes and solutions they encountered along the way. I'm not saying something exactly like that should be built in New York, but something on a large scale like that for transportation would be nice.

Although, on the other hand, I think we're all spoiled anyway since we really do have a lot of public transportation available to us in the form of rail. Even in New Jersey, it's nice to be able to get around without driving or even taking a bus.
  by jeffG
 
JayMan: I saw the Times article yesterday and then your map and I flipped. I've been doodling my own fantasy maps for quite a while and it's a shock to see others doing it too. Wouldst that the MTA and city govt. take heed! Kudos to you and also a request. How do you create your maps? I'm assuming you are using some sort of program like Illustrator. Please advise as I would like to create my own version and perhaps post it here.

Best,

JG

  by matt1168
 
Hey guys ... I'm back! :-D

It's a cool article, but why did he decide to use my map instead of Ben's?

In any case, cool plug for RR.net!

  by JayMan
 
matt1168 wrote:Hey guys ... I'm back! :-D

It's a cool article, but why did he decide to use my map instead of Ben's?

In any case, cool plug for RR.net!
Congrats on the map getting in Matt. My understanding from Mr. Mindlin was they wanted to go more the fantasy aspect -- your map is more ambitious than mine and is more reserved. Yours I guess played more into the fantasy theme.
  by JayMan
 
jeffG wrote:JayMan: I saw the Times article yesterday and then your map and I flipped. I've been doodling my own fantasy maps for quite a while and it's a shock to see others doing it too. Wouldst that the MTA and city govt. take heed!
I hope so. At the very least, maybe it will help get the SAS going.
jeffG wrote: Kudos to you and also a request. How do you create your maps?
Thanx man! I use Paint Shop Pro.
  by dparkinson
 
Great maps all of you, but what is the program you used, I have ideas that i would love to map out.
For instance, the (8) train would travel from Battery Park city to Laguardia airport via 2nd avenue, randalls island and the Amtrak Bridge
the (9) train would travel express from Bowling Green to Riverdale via 2nd avenue and a 110th street crossover.

Tell me what you think!!