Erie-DL&W "Plan C" Joint Track Proposal - 1955

henry6 wrote:Of course the joke today is that when RT17 was rerouted around Corning Conrail had to move the track from the Erie right of way to the DL right of way!

Henry,
I dont think Conrail re-routed any tracks when the "Corning bypass" was built..
the new bypass around Corning was built in the early 90's..
the DL&W ROW was already in use long before that..

the original Erie went right through the middle of Corning, south of the River..the current Denison parkway one block south of Market st..
that line was abandoned long before the 90's..

Scot

No, the EL used the Erie ROW and abandoned the DL from Gibson. When the RT17/I86 bypass was built the track was moved over onto the DL&W ROW at Gibson .

henry6 wrote:No, the EL used the Erie ROW and abandoned the DL from Gibson. When the RT17/I86 bypass was built the track was moved over onto the DL&W ROW at Gibson .

Henry,
when are you referring to?
I dont think we are talking about the same events and dates.

I am referring to the newest stretch of route 17/I86 that bypasses Corning..started around 1991/1992.
I lived in Corning in 1992, and the bypass was under construction then, but not yet opened.
its the "bypass" that takes you past Corning to the north.
before 1992, you had to drive through downtown Corning to stay on route 17...and the Erie mainline through Corning was gone long before then.

Im certain that the DL&W ROW was in use by Conrail from Gibson - Riverside many years before the 1992 bypass was built.
I went to Corning Community College in 1987/88 and Conrail had the same ROW then that exists today..DL&W north of Corning.

Scot

Same thing, same time. That was the irony of the highway building.

henry6 wrote:Same thing, same time. That was the irony of the highway building.

hmmmm..then im confused.

as far as I know, the Conrail ROW in 1987 is exactly the same as the current ROW through corning..what changed in 1992?

Approaching Corning, westbound, from BigFlats, we are on the Erie..
at Gibson we switch to the DL&W, we stay on the DL&W until the DL&W Corning station, near Riverside, where we switch back to the Erie and head to Gang Mills..

like thus:




sorry for the crudeness of the map..
maybe I will try to paint the ROWs over an actual map..
that would be clearer..

that routing was changed in 1992?
im not seeing it...

unless you are talking about a switchover from the *parallel* post-1950's Erie in the vicinity of riverside?

I guess im talking abotu the *historic* DL&W main, as opposed to the historic Erie main through downtown Corning..

where exactly was the Erie main re-routed in the early 50's?
did it simply parallel the DL&W north of Corning?

I guess I am considering that entire northern ROW pure DL&W..
perhaps thats what im missing..if that corridor was also Erie after 1953 or so..when the downtown Erie ROW was relocated..

Scot

Ah, but the Erie had been over between the river and the DL after the early 50's removal from the streets! So, with the merger, the Erie "new main" was used around Corning.

Back in the early 80s, rt 17 only went as far as East Corning exit. The tracks were on the Erie ROW then.

Sometime before 1985 they expanded rt 17 to the Glass Museum exit (a whopping three miles) and the tracks by Gibson were moved to the DL&W ROW. That stretch wasn't called rt 17 then, they still directed highway traffic down Dennison Parkway via East Corning exit. I drove from RIT to Nichols every weekend from 1985-88 and remember having to get off at the museum exit, it was quicker that way.

There is a restaurant in Painted Post called The Central that has a 1927 map of Corning/Painted Post showing all the railroads and their yards - including the original Erie through downtown Corning and the Elmira-Corning trolley line (!!), which did indeed cross the river via the Erie bridge on the east side.

scottychaos wrote:where exactly was the Erie main re-routed in the early 50's?
did it simply parallel the DL&W north of Corning?

I guess I am considering that entire northern ROW pure DL&W..
perhaps thats what im missing..if that corridor was also Erie after 1953 or so..when the downtown Erie ROW was relocated..

Scot

In the early 50s Erie built their new mainline right next to the DL&W from Gibson to Riverside. In the process they eliminated two bridges and moved their yards from west Corning (site of Dennison Pkwy by Wegmans) to Gang Mills. If you ever visit The Central in the aforementioned post, across from the 1927 map is a more recent map with the new Erie mainline which should make things clearer.

There is little of the original Erie mainline through downtown Corning. The station was on Pine St north of the tracks, the site is now a parking lot. Heading east the track curved away from Dennison Parkway east of Chemung St, where Corning Hospital is today. Along Third St you can catch a trace of the ROW looking east, and it ran behind the cemetary on the southeast side of Corning. The remnant behind the cemetary is paved road. There is a little trace on Depot St. Beyond there the ROW is untraceable and I can find no trace of the original bridge.

calorosome wrote: Sometime before 1985 they expanded rt 17 to the Glass Museum exit (a whopping three miles) and the tracks by Gibson were moved to the DL&W ROW.

ah! ok..that clears it up..
the move to the DL&W was around 1985, not 1992 when the new bypass was built..
that explains why everything has been the same since I drove it every day in 1987/88..

when I say "the new bypass" im talking about the bit from the "glass museum exit" west to Riverside..built around 1992.
Henry was referring to the route 17 construction between Gibson and the Museum exit..which was the beginning of the bypas I suppose..it ended at the museum exit in 1985, then just sat there until construcion began again 1992.

No trackage was moved during the *last* bit of bypass construction in 1992..the bit between the museum exit and riverside...the bit that completed the entire bypass.
Henry and I were talking about different parts and times of route 17 construction afterall.
Henry was referring to 1985, I was referring to 1992..
close, but different..
so..I guess we were both right!
just some confusion over dates.

Scot

Flailing through the abyss of generation gaps!

And through growing cobwebs in the brain.

calorosome wrote:I lived in the Southern Tier during Hurricane Agnes. The flood did no damage to DL&W ROW or to rt 17 built on the ROW between Vestal and Corning, and Erie and DL&W equal number of river crossings. I think Nichols would have been vulnerable though.

The damage further west to the DL&W was quite severe. The EL Wayland Branch (which was mostly the Lackawanna mainline) was washed out in a number of places and did not re-open until September, 1972- two months after the former Erie main. The Wayland Branch runs in very close proximity to the Cohocton River for much of its length.

calorosome wrote:And through growing cobwebs in the brain.

BRAIN? What's a "brain"?

henry6 wrote:There are actually three books by the Tabers about the DL&W. First is THE DELAWARE LACKAWANNA AND WESTERN RAILROAD IN THE 19TH CENTURY by Thomas T. Taber and Thomas T. Taber II. The senior Taber died but son continued with a two volume set of the DL&W "IN THE 20th CENTURY". These three books are the most complete and comprehensive histories of the the DL&W. All three books have been reprinted and might still be available at the bookstore at Steamtown; or check fan mags or online, even from Thomas T. Taber of Milton, PA (google or ask for details). They are hard to come by.

Excellent books! I have all three.

I've seen the complete set for sale frequently in rail-related stores and rail shows, so I don't think they would be hard to find if you keep your eyes open.

so..
does anyone know exactly where the current southern tier main switches from the Erie to the DL&W in the east Corning/Gibson area??

Im looking at aerial photos, and I think based on current evidence alone its impossible to tell where the switchover occurs..
because the two lines were directly next to each other, and today its just one combined blurred ROW for both railroads.
the lines were so close together, its impossible to tell today which was the Erie and which was the DL&W in the East Corning area.

So, heading Westbound (today) from Elmira towards Corning, we are on the Erie through Elmira, Horseheads, and Bigflats..
just west of BigFlats, the two lines come directly next to each other..
somewhere between BigFlats and Gibson the current S.T. main switches from the Erie to the DL&W...but where exactly?
the logical location is where the current Route 17 crosses over the tracks,
because that forces the current tracks to switch to the "northern" of the two routes, which is the DL&W..
but im not sure...
does anyone know for certain where the changeover occurs?






thanks,
Scot