Do sleeping cars make money?

Here's the biggest and shakiest assumption in the whole scenario:

if the government would sign the loan

If "the government" is holding the paper, then what's this $1.75/mi figure? Too many assumptions, too many undefinables.

I have no way of evaluating Mr. Payne's spreadsheet, though it looks reasonable. But here's one way of approaching the question: What would a PV owner charge to rent his car for daily use for the 3 months of summer? The car would come with linens, etc., but the car user would have to launder the linen, clean the car, and provide crew. I don't know who pays for and arranges for maintenance in such a long-term charter. Perhaps Mr. Pevsner or Mr. Levin or other PV owner could enlighten us.

Reality check time

AOE, which has a small fleet, runs it on a variety of routings, not as A--->B transportation, but as a rolling hotel, makes money. They also charge a super premium fare that covers transportation, accommodation, and food.

Absent hard data, I have to assume that Amtrak is able to cover the costs of doing business using sleepers in its fleet. I further assume they make a certain amount of money that they use to mitigate other money-losing areas of their operation.

This is an economic balancing act. There is a point where adding the next sleeper to the fleet will place system-wide supply and demand in balance. There is a point where adding the next sleeper to the fleet will skew availability to supply over demand. Amtrak does not need to go there.

I listen, a lot, to both Matt and Gil when they talk about the perils (and pleasures) of taking risks as independent businessmen.

John

i guess you could take the annual costs attributed to each train , ( for ones like the empire builder , it is over $ 100 million ) , and divide it by the number of cars , then by the number of days . you would have the full costs allocated to that car then . however if that car did not run , then those costs would be increased for all other cars on that train .

David Benton wrote:i guess you could take the annual costs attributed to each train , ( for ones like the empire builder , it is over $ 100 million ) , and divide it by the number of cars , then by the number of days . you would have the full costs allocated to that car then .

That wouldn't work, because you'd be dividing it between coaches and sleepers, and allocating the costs equally regardless of what type of car. No doubt a sleeper is more expensive to operate than a coach, but it should also generate more revenue as well. Taking that $100 million you'd also be including a lot of costs unrelated to the sleeper itself, especially if it includes the fully allocated costs such as reservations, maintenence, the wages of the janitor in David Gunn's office, etc.

What you need is sleeper revenue and sleeper costs. Since sleeper fares include meals, you'd also have to include the relevant portion of dining car costs.

Former Amtrak president Claytor in a board meeting once stated that the sleeper line makes money.

I admittedly heard that from another advocate, but Claytor, if he said it, would know.

Now, this doesn't mean every sleeping car on every train makes money - just overall at the time he said that in the 1980s.

Just as no Amtrak train - nor airplane or highway, for that matter - NEC or otherwise- truly covers its above the rails and below the rails costs.