by Arborwayfan
If all the sleepers came off the long-distance trains, would those trains start losing more money, or less? What if the diners came off, too, since part of sleeper revenue is supposed to pay for food and diner costs?
Ridership: Even though many people on here (and many many more people who aren't railfans) would never take an overnight train ride in coach, people do. A typical LD train must have two or three times as many people in coach as in sleeper. (Picture the CZ with 3 coaches and 2 sleepers plus some spaces sold in the transition sleeper: each coach holds around 80, each sleeper holds around 45 if it's full, but there are usually some roommettes and/or bedrooms with just one passenger.) I have trouble imagining that many of the coach passengers would stop riding coach if the sleepers went away. A few could be hoping for a cheap onboard upgrade, which used to be common and is now really rare; a few could be riding coach one way and sleeper the other and be unwilling to ride coach both ways. But by and large coach pax are coach pax, willing to ride coach. Some might stop riding if there were no diner; plenty of coach pax eat in the diner some of the time. But dropping diners did not seem to dent even sleeper ridership, so that number is probably small.
Costs and Revenue: Do sleepers subsidize coach? I know the accounting is complicated and kind of arbitrary, but it seems like sleepers don't even come close to covering all diner costs associated with sleeper pax, let alone the whole cost of the diner, and certainly no extra revenue for the coaches.
Politics: Are there a lot of people who ride sleepers regularly and lobby their congresspersons effectively in a way that coach passengers don't? Could sleeper passengers be what keeps Nebraska's delegation etc voting for Amtrak?
So what about it: What if Amtrak pulled the sleepers off one or two single-level LD routes and reassigned them to the NEC overnight trains, no food, charge what the market will bear? What if Amtrak pulled the sleepers off one or two Superliner LD routes and used them for a train SF or Oakland and LA or a similar overnight run between a couple other Western cities the right distance apart? Beds are down when you board and down when you get off; cleanup is handled at the terminals. No food. Would the overnight sleepers be able to break even, possibly including paying higher rates to the host RRs because they were new trains?
And, main question in this thread, would the trains that lost their sleepers do better or worse financially?
Ridership: Even though many people on here (and many many more people who aren't railfans) would never take an overnight train ride in coach, people do. A typical LD train must have two or three times as many people in coach as in sleeper. (Picture the CZ with 3 coaches and 2 sleepers plus some spaces sold in the transition sleeper: each coach holds around 80, each sleeper holds around 45 if it's full, but there are usually some roommettes and/or bedrooms with just one passenger.) I have trouble imagining that many of the coach passengers would stop riding coach if the sleepers went away. A few could be hoping for a cheap onboard upgrade, which used to be common and is now really rare; a few could be riding coach one way and sleeper the other and be unwilling to ride coach both ways. But by and large coach pax are coach pax, willing to ride coach. Some might stop riding if there were no diner; plenty of coach pax eat in the diner some of the time. But dropping diners did not seem to dent even sleeper ridership, so that number is probably small.
Costs and Revenue: Do sleepers subsidize coach? I know the accounting is complicated and kind of arbitrary, but it seems like sleepers don't even come close to covering all diner costs associated with sleeper pax, let alone the whole cost of the diner, and certainly no extra revenue for the coaches.
Politics: Are there a lot of people who ride sleepers regularly and lobby their congresspersons effectively in a way that coach passengers don't? Could sleeper passengers be what keeps Nebraska's delegation etc voting for Amtrak?
So what about it: What if Amtrak pulled the sleepers off one or two single-level LD routes and reassigned them to the NEC overnight trains, no food, charge what the market will bear? What if Amtrak pulled the sleepers off one or two Superliner LD routes and used them for a train SF or Oakland and LA or a similar overnight run between a couple other Western cities the right distance apart? Beds are down when you board and down when you get off; cleanup is handled at the terminals. No food. Would the overnight sleepers be able to break even, possibly including paying higher rates to the host RRs because they were new trains?
And, main question in this thread, would the trains that lost their sleepers do better or worse financially?