• Detroit Commuter Rail (SEMTA)

  • General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

  by Otto Vondrak
 
  by mtuandrew
 
About the linked image in your first post, to the SEMTA schedule and map (http://www.flickr.com/photos/natebeal/2501062216/) - wouldn't it be great if the Grand Trunk hadn't mostly-abandoned their waterfront line to the Renaissance Center, and Detroit/MDOT/Amtrak had built a connection along the waterfront to the West Side Industrial district and Canadian Pacific's track? A RenCen station would be usable should VIA come across the border (through the CP tunnel past Michigan Central, around through New Center on the CN, and back down through Eastern Market to the RenCen), and it'd drop visitors in a part of Detroit they'd, frankly, want to visit and where most people go to work in that city.

Sorry for the mostly non-SEMTA post, but it seems that a resurrected commuter rail authority would be able to use such a station too.
  by Detroit
 
SEMTA did not use any streetcar lines, as they would have been long gone by that later time. SEMTA merely ran a commuter-rail operation on regular railroad trackage from Pontiac to near the old Brush Street depot (terminus).

And the trains would never have gone into the Detroit River because the ROW made a 90-degree turn to the east (inbound) around Orleans Street or whatever and then went parallel to the river.

Within the last year, the city of Detroit converted the former ROW along the Dequindre Cut (the former moat that was about forty feet below grade from Eastern Market to near the river) into a bicycle-jogging park. This tree-overgrown and trash-filled moat formerly was a home to dozens of Detroit's rummies and bums. At night, they could have been used as look-alike extras in shooting the "Night of the Living Dead" movie... The rails are now LONG GONE, as the former Tiger's play-by-play announcer--Ernie Harwell--might say.

It is remotely possible for rail to return, but that is extremely doubtful. Mayor Bing said yesterday that Detroit might have to file for bankruptcy soon, possibly after 70 days when its remaining funds are expected to be LONG GONE also (even after it fires over 1000 of its 14,000 highly unionized "workers"). Before Draconian cost-cutting was planned, the city and its DPS school district had combined deficits of around $800 million for the current fiscal year. DPS's state-appointed financial manager said last month that it is still $259 million short and would probably have to file for bankruptcy within a year.

Sorry to burst any misplaced bubbles of hope, but the city of Detroit and its downtown are both way beyond hope as active business centers, teeming with passengers. And that prognosis would have been much the same for anytime during the past 2 1/2 decades since SEMTA last ran.

Detroit had a 30-year boom period at the beginning of the Twentieth Century that was followed by 80 years of busting thereafter to the present, save for the few WWII years. By 1947, even the Ford Motor Company was teetering on the brink of bankruptcy then, but the Ford family continued to go on, after the death of Henry Ford that year.

The city of Pontiac is also broke and will likely go bankrupt at almost any time now. Currently, the "town-island" city of Highland Park within the city of Detroit has been bankrupt for several years, and other Detroit suburbs are also mulling over possible bankruptcies within the next decade.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
It appears that when AOL shut down their Hometown site, several linked photos of the Detroit area SEMTA service were lost. However, I located a site that has several of the photos available:

http://www.rr-roadtrip.com/pass100425a.jpg

http://www.rr-roadtrip.com/pass100425d.jpg

http://www.rr-roadtrip.com/pass100425h.jpg
  by mtuandrew
 
Detroit wrote:SEMTA did not use any streetcar lines, as they would have been long gone by that later time. SEMTA merely ran a commuter-rail operation on regular railroad trackage from Pontiac to near the old Brush Street depot (terminus).

And the trains would never have gone into the Detroit River because the ROW made a 90-degree turn to the east (inbound) around Orleans Street or whatever and then went parallel to the river.

Within the last year, the city of Detroit converted the former ROW along the Dequindre Cut (the former moat that was about forty feet below grade from Eastern Market to near the river) into a bicycle-jogging park. This tree-overgrown and trash-filled moat formerly was a home to dozens of Detroit's rummies and bums. At night, they could have been used as look-alike extras in shooting the "Night of the Living Dead" movie... The rails are now LONG GONE, as the former Tiger's play-by-play announcer--Ernie Harwell--might say.

It is remotely possible for rail to return, but that is extremely doubtful. Mayor Bing said yesterday that Detroit might have to file for bankruptcy soon, possibly after 70 days when its remaining funds are expected to be LONG GONE also (even after it fires over 1000 of its 14,000 highly unionized "workers"). Before Draconian cost-cutting was planned, the city and its DPS school district had combined deficits of around $800 million for the current fiscal year. DPS's state-appointed financial manager said last month that it is still $259 million short and would probably have to file for bankruptcy within a year.

Sorry to burst any misplaced bubbles of hope, but the city of Detroit and its downtown are both way beyond hope as active business centers, teeming with passengers. And that prognosis would have been much the same for anytime during the past 2 1/2 decades since SEMTA last ran.

Detroit had a 30-year boom period at the beginning of the Twentieth Century that was followed by 80 years of busting thereafter to the present, save for the few WWII years. By 1947, even the Ford Motor Company was teetering on the brink of bankruptcy then, but the Ford family continued to go on, after the death of Henry Ford that year.

The city of Pontiac is also broke and will likely go bankrupt at almost any time now. Currently, the "town-island" city of Highland Park within the city of Detroit has been bankrupt for several years, and other Detroit suburbs are also mulling over possible bankruptcies within the next decade.
It's been a bit since I've visited Detroit, about a year now, but last time I visited the tourism and entertainment sector was doing much better than any other part of the economy. That's specifically why I was wishing for a Renaissance Center/Brush Street Station - easy connections to the Detroit People Mover (ironically one of the safer areas in downtown, which is itself safer than most would imagine) and very close to the entertainment districts of Greektown, the Cobo/Joe Louis complex, the stadiums and casinos near Grand Circus and the tunnel bus to Windsor. Incidentally, I don't know where the streetcar business came up, but I'd meant a heavy rail connection from Atwater St. & St. Antoine St. (the Renaissance Center) to Jefferson Ave. & 10th St. just past Wayne County Community College, then under Fort, Lafayette and Rosa Parks to connect with the CP at Michigan Central Station. Probably won't happen, but it wouldn't be bad planning to leave a right-of-way once the Joe Louis Arena is taken down. (The Illitchs are still planning their new stadium, no? No word on a new lease deal, either at the Joe or the Palace?)

You're definitely correct on the pitiful state of Michigan's economy, though - I went to school in the UP for years, but came back to Minnesota to find work because there's nothing really in my field... or any field. My girlfriend is finishing her degree in the UP as well, and has already written off the state as a source of work. Same with many of my friends from the Detroit and Saginaw areas. I don't believe it's beyond hope, if the rest of the Rust Belt can reinvent itself so can Detroit and Michigan, but it has a long ways to go. Perhaps one way to go about it would be to apply for grants to improve rail service, since there seems to be at least an indirect correlation between progressive cities and effective transit.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Andrew et al, even though the Pure Michigan ads are "real Mad Ave", there is something sad that a once mighty industrial state is reduced to peddling tourism. That has always been there, including being able to ride on PRR's Northern Arrow from Detroit and Chicago to Mackinaw but was ancillary to the strong industrial base.

But even if the US auto industry is to stabilize at pre recession 2007 levels of sales, there will only be some 40000 UAW workers at GM and likely the same number at the other two combined. The US industry lost me during 1988 when my "clunker of clunkers" (a 1985 Buick Park Ave) and I parted company during 1988 in favor of Asian products. However, I will readily acknowledge that when I do drive US products with auto rentals, they DO seem a "mite bit' better put together than my clunkers of yore.

In view of the substantial decline in the Detroit region population base and the virtual certainty "it ain't never coming back", that rail commuter service is RIP comes as no surprise.
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by Detroit
 
Andy,

The Detroit naysayers are correct in their opinions and assessments that Detroit is a ghost town in the making, First, the entertainment businesses in Detroit are going bust too. The Tigers are in first place in their division, yet their daily attendance per game is some ten thousand fewer than last year's (and that was a very bad year victory-wise). Greektown (one of Detroit's three casinos) has been in bankruptcy for a year already. The mostly taxpayer-backed rehabilitation of the Book-Cadillac hotel and condos is not succeeding. Only 12 of its 64 condos have closed--even after massive price reductions; the other condos sit idly by waiting for any suckers to buy any... Its companion condo project next door was aborted just after its structural steel was purchased--and had to be sold at a substantial loss, aided by a drop in steel prices.

The Northern Group tried to float a "Hail-Mary project on Detroit's choice real estate, right next to Campus Martius--the heart of downtown. Nobody was dumb enough to buy into that ruse, especially since its completion date was pegged two years ago at almost five years into the future back then... The Northern Group owns the Penobscot Building skyscraper--one of several Detroit's skyscrapers with huge vacancies. Some are entirely empty, and one--the Book Tower--had its electricity turned off two years ago due to vastly overdue utility bills...

And many crooks and cronies are going or will be going to prison soon. A Greektown businessman was caught in a scam with Congressman John Conyers over a waste well in or near Romulus. Conyers still has not yet been charged; even Obama's Justice Department might have to throw Conyers to the wolves... Last month, Conyers's wife plead guilty to federal bribery charges and is awaiting sentencing. She since then is being investigated for other crimes... Eventually, the Feds will probably indict up to a couple hundred of Detroit's past and present crooked politicians and their enablers. Listing all the crooked activity just disclosed in metro Detroit during the past couple months could involve several forum threads.

Much like the Feds did in New Jersey this July where three mayors there were indicted and one alleged crook already committed suicide. A few others here in Detroit plead guilty already and are likewise awaiting federal sentencing. The FBI's big hammer will fall soon, as the Federal grand juries keep meeting.

This region is not any type of tourist mecca that will lure visitors...