Death On The Rails

Now, I know that there wasn't a passenger fatality, but I want to draw your attention to some VERY disturbing things I have been seeing SEPTA doing on the NEC, and no doubt EVERYWHERE else.

I have been down in Wilmington training with Amtrak and we have a birds eye view of the NEC. I have been watching trains and EVERY SEPTA train that passes, no matter if it is Northbound or Southbound, ... wait for it...

THE DOORS AND TRAPS ARE OPEN.

I have even seen this on the long stretch between Wilmington and Newark. Now, I know that this might not seem so bad, but what if a conductor is standing in the vestibule and an Acela Express passes at 110 mph? The suction could suck him or her right out of the train. Even more so if it was travelling in the opposite direction. Imagine if a passenger was travelling between cars!

Now, I remember hearing that the old PRR rules and regulations manuals prohibited the operation of the train with traps or doors open. Does the SEPTA one still say this?

Why isn't the FRA seeing this? Why are the conductors allowing this?

WHO IS WATCHING THESE TRAINS?

Its nice to see a lack of rule enforcement outside the transit division. Bus/Trolley operators are just as bad. Want to light up on a bus? go ahead? Don't want to pay fare? Hey It's optional!

I think this just points to the bigger problems at SEPTA and the organization as a whole which is falling apart. And its not just because there's no money----no one cares.

Really? I've been riding the buses and troleys almost every weekday for years. I honestly can't recall every seeing anyone smoking. Where do you see it and did you advise anyone? There's too much eating going on, that's for sure. But I've also seen drivers tell people not to bring open food on the bus and the people go nuts! I've seen drivers argue with scam artists over fares and I've seen them give others a break when they are short. Some jerks will not let seniors ride even though it was only a minute or two away from their free ride period. I guess in your view that bus driver is doing a great job.

Well, I went to the 30th Street Station (EL) today to ride back into the city. When I got to the platform level, there was a young girl lighting up her cigarette. I couldn't believe it. She wasn't even trying to hide it. She was right by the stairs. So. I went back upstairs to the station agent to inquire about if there was a police officer in the station.

"No." No other help provided.

While I was doing this, an Amtrak Conductor walked up to the agent, asked if he could get a ride, FOR FREE. (!!!) The agent said yes! And, not to mention, HE WAS SMOKING THE WHOLE TIME.

When I went back to the platform, there were at least FOUR other people smoking, that I saw. The air was NOTICABLY hazy.

No wonder they are broke. They are letting people ride for free. They aren't enforcing rules. They are making the system unacessable to law abiding, decent people.

Are we seriously paying for this?

Scrap it all. Close it all. FIRE THEM ALL.

I've seen uniformed Philadelphia Police officers smoking in the 11th Street station several times.

The 30th street El station seems to be bad that way. I've also seen several people smoking there while waiting for the El. But the worst example of smoking i've seen was these 3 loud, annoying, profanity-spewing women on Rt. 100 at 69th street. One actually lit a cigarette in her seat! When the driver told her to go outside, she walked nonchalantly up to the door, stood just outside (so the smoke still wafted in), and proceeded to yell her conversation to the other two.

Although he told her off for smoking, I think the driver was a little scared of them and didn't tell them off for the other rudenesses. So maybe the reason people get away with all this stuff is that SEPTA employees are afraid of their patrons!

Well, I know that in San Francisco, they have passes ordinance that makes assult on a Muni (SF Municipal Railway) worker a felony. It is the same way with most of the transit agencies in the Bay area, if not California.

I would be worried too if I worked for SEPTA and I had to tell someone to follow the rules. I have seen some of the kinda of people that ride the system. I honestly think that you could be killed by some of them for not allowing a free ride.

I have heard stories of Muni drivers who have been beat up, spit on and threatened for not allowing free passage. Even 'civilized' people who are white collar workers have been seen throwing lattés at busses because they have passed a stop w/o stopping.

Its a terible state of affairs that we have gotten ourselves in to. There is alsolutly NO quality control over ANY of the system.

'SEPTA: Come As You Are.'

queenlnr8 wrote:Well, I know that in San Francisco, they have passes ordinance that makes assult on a Muni (SF Municipal Railway) worker a felony. It is the same way with most of the transit agencies in the Bay area, if not California.

I think Pennsylvania has a similar statute, but the only hint of same was a posting on one of the older buses in transit bus in Reading that said "Assaulting the operator of this vehicle is a felony under Pa. law" or words to that effect.

I know for a fact that New Jersey has a similar statute to the one that you describe about San Francisco.

Well. I am pretty sure that every peice of Muni equipment has a sign that reads:

"Assult on a Muni Employee is a FELONY. WE WILL PROSECUTE."

It is actually quite amazing that they have that. I have read of more than a few instances of that being put to use.

Well I gotta say first that ...of all the rules to call to task, smoking seems the least of Septa's problems. As railfans, we all embrace a certain nostalgia for the golden age of railroading. Well, back then EVERYONE (including the locomotives and the factories) smoked. Hell, you could smoke in hospitals. I have a pic of my mom changing my diaper, and she's smokin a Marlboro ...woulda made a great billboard. Take a ride on the Strasburg and you've probably inhaled the equivalent of ten cartons of Camels...and were glad for the experience.

As far as the free ride for the Amtrak Conductor, I can tell you this. I used to work at a deli in CC Philly. When a cop came in and asked for a coffee it was always free. And if we ever got held up, we wanted that cop on the scene asap, and not remembering us as the guys who "sold" him a cup o' joe. Amtrak and Septa share a fair amount of rail on the Keystone and Northeast Corridors...try gettin the R8 off the main and onto the branch without Amtrak's OK. The free tickets...it's called professional courtesy.

My point is...let's focus on the rules that matter. When the Pennsy ran those rails, safety was rule one. And yes, I agree, those traps oughta be closed. That's what's important.

Urban

I understand that 'scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' may work with police, but this is a Conductor. What does he have to say about waht train goes where? Nothing. A police officer is keeping you safe. Not lifting your ticket. (Yes, I know that they do more. I am one.)

But, what if a SEPTA employee hopped aboard an Amtrak train and requested a free ride? What do you think that outcome would be of that little scenario? No. You pay the fare.

But, all that aside. This is bout the total lack of standards and safety proceedure on SEPTA.

queenlnr8 -

I see your point...and I should have been clearer.

I agree that the relationship between a beat cop and a local deli is a lot more direct and personal than that between an Amtrak conductor and a Septa ticket agent. And no, of course that conductor won't be the guy giving tower clearance to any Septa trains. But the overarching principle here is that the organizations as a whole extend that courtesy to each other.

Now would a Septa employee get a freee ride on Amtrak? Well not to New Orleans. But say, for example, that Amtrak extended Keystone Corridor service to Suburban Station...certainly this has been discussed, pending full eletrification of PHL-HBG service. I'll bet a sawbuck that if for some reason a Septa employee needed a ride, and Amtrak was the next eastbound train, he'd ride free. In other words, it's not a reciprocal courtesy. To belabor the cop-deli analogy, it's like suggesting that if the cop needs protection, he should call a deli clerk.

Each agency provides the courtesy it has to offer. In Septa's case, that's a free ride between local stations. In Amtrak's case, it's timely dispatch of Septa trains on its rails.

-Urban

On SEPTA trains....they routinely keep doors and traps open on the platform side of the train to speed loading and unloading due to the short distances between stations and the low-level platforms. They only keep doors closed if the next stop involves a high-level platform, or between high-level platform stops (i.e. University City to Temple), as well as when in their express zones.

While I'm not sure of any FRA regulations existing with regards to that, passengers are prohibited from riding in the vestibules, anyway.

NJ Transit also does this on a limited basis on equipment not equipped with the long doors/traps, and the places and times they can do that is designated in the employee timetable.

I don't want to restart a long-door vs. trap debate here, that's been hashed enough here and in the NJT forum. All I will say is that as long as operating rules are followed, we won't hear of any passengers falling from a moving train from standing in the vestibule between stations.

I will add....a closed door doesn't always protect. Anybody remember the SEPTA engineer who fell from his cab when the side door on his Silverliner IV opened unexpectedly while on an R5 run near Devon?

Joe