DE/DM/C3 Questions

Hi all, Over the last year (since I started taking the train into the city) I've taken a strong interest in trains. I really don't know much about them, so I read the posts on this board daily just so I can learn. Unfortunately for me.... Many of the posts go way over my head. For example... What's the deal with the DE/DM's ? Are the DE's and DM's the same? I was under the impression that the DM was a dual mode train that can operate in both Diesel mode and Electric. If that's the case... is the DE the same thing? Any info on this would be appreciated.

Is it also true that the LIRR rarely uses the Dual mode trains in the Electric mode b/c of constant problems?

Also, the C3's... Are those the bi level cars? Can those operate without a DM/DE? Or do they always need to be pushed/pulled.

This is an extra silly question but I will ask it anyway. Does anyone know if they give tours of the Hillside Maintenance Facility? I am amazed at the size of that place and would love to see the inside.

Thanks for all the help Everyone
Chris

Chris
To answer your questions (hopefully). The de engines ( numbered 400 to 422 ) are used in all areas of the railroad without third rail. They are restricted in that they only operate in diesel mode. You will find them on the Port Jefferson, Montauk, and Greenport Branches. They do not have contact shoes. The DM engines ( numbered 500 to 522) have third rail contact shoes and can be placed in electric mode to operate to Penn Station. They are also used in push pull service mainly on the Oyster Bay branch and occasionally on the Montauk Branch. Visually the two engines are the same as well as most of the components except the DMs have thrid rail contact shoes, an extra bar along the body of the engine and an electric cabnet located in the engine.The c3 coaches can be used in both diesel or electric territiory due to the fact that they have no power and can only move when coupled to an engine. Their are 23 c3 coaches called cab cars. They are numbered 5001 to 5023. They are primarily used in push pull operation, but can be used anywhere in the train when there is a shortage of regular coaches. The cab car provides operation for the engineer to control the speed of the engine from west end when travelling west . \
I believe that there are no tours of Hillside, but you can contact the LIRR for information.
As for the limited number of DM trains ( they are used only in peak rush hour service mostly) I believe it is due to the limited number of cars in service that has limited the use of more DM trains into Penn. Their are presently 134 bi level coaches. These are distributed among four branches.

Thanks Sean, perfect explanation

Sean 418 wrote:Chris
To answer your questions (hopefully). The de engines ( numbered 400 to 422 ) are used in all areas of the railroad without third rail. They are restricted in that they only operate in diesel mode. You will find them on the Port Jefferson, Montauk, and Greenport Branches. They do not have contact shoes. The DM engines ( numbered 500 to 522) have third rail contact shoes and can be placed in electric mode to operate to Penn Station. They are also used in push pull service mainly on the Oyster Bay branch and occasionally on the Montauk Branch. Visually the two engines are the same as well as most of the components except the DMs have thrid rail contact shoes, an extra bar along the body of the engine and an electric cabnet located in the engine.The c3 coaches can be used in both diesel or electric territiory due to the fact that they have no power and can only move when coupled to an engine. Their are 23 c3 coaches called cab cars. They are numbered 5001 to 5023. They are primarily used in push pull operation, but can be used anywhere in the train when there is a shortage of regular coaches. The cab car provides operation for the engineer to control the speed of the engine from west end when travelling west . \
I believe that there are no tours of Hillside, but you can contact the LIRR for information.
As for the limited number of DM trains ( they are used only in peak rush hour service mostly) I believe it is due to the limited number of cars in service that has limited the use of more DM trains into Penn. Their are presently 134 bi level coaches. These are distributed among four branches.

Believe it or not I have once rode a longer than usual DM/C3 set on the Ronkonkoma branch from Brentwood to Jamaica (not a Greenport run & not during that Main line construction G.O.) & there is one pm peak run from Hunterspoint to Ronkonkoma.

Avidprime,

Sadly, there are no tours of Hillside available.
I wish they would do that for you guys that are interested. Hillside Maintenance Complex is supposedly the largest commuter rail maintenance facility in North America, at an estimated one million square feet of floor space. A lot goes on in there.
If you really are interested in the trains, as you indicated, you can check the MetroNorth forum. They do offer a day of open house up at Croton Harmon Shop. I think it is coming up in October. Some members of this forum do set aside the day to spend up there. All seem to enjoy it.

Tom

HMC open house would generate some income to the LIRR

run it on a sat or sun when work is not going on or limited or just stop work period that 1day like MN does in croton.

If enough in the management level agree i bet we can get something.

If my memory serves me correctly, back probably in 1981 or so, the Long Island - Sunrise Trail Chapter of the NRHS (or maybe it was the ERA?) ran a fan trip and tour of Morris Park.

I know the Railroad sometimes accommodates inductry groups such as APTA on shop tours and they would probably entertain a group of sufficent size and influence if they were approached by a responsible, lucid spokesman.

Clem

Back in June of 1987 I toured Morris Park as past of a trip sponcered by The Steam loco 39 group. This I believe was the original group out in Riverhead. They did a lot of trips. I also have photos from the trip to the "new" West Side Yard from October 1987. In May 1985 I went on their trip up to Croton-Harmon Shops. They also had Fantrips I attended in 85-86 and 88.

The one run from LIC to Ronkonkoma is powered by an M1/3 set. The same applies to the run from Huntington to LIC now which used to be DE/DM/C3.

Neil Feldman wrote:The one run from LIC to Ronkonkoma is powered by an M1/3 set. The same applies to the run from Huntington to LIC now which used to be DE/DM/C3.

IIRC, the M1/M3 set that runs out to KO makes its first revenue stop at Hunterspoint Ave, not LIC, because the platform tracks are not electrified. Similarly, I think the Huntington-LIC train makes its last revenue stop at Hunterspoint and continues onto the electrified yard tracks.

Long Island - Sunrise Trail Chapter of the NRHS Had The Tour To The Shop's in 1987 I Have The NRHS Book From 1987 with a Group Photo of The Members on The Turn Table and as for the Fantrip 39 group had was in may of 1988 my dad and I was on that Trip we had Two GP38 268-276 and F7 621.
Here are some photo's of the Trip
http://community.webshots.com/album/261672046gCWfYe

Thanks for your help everyone. I didn't think they gave tours of the Hillside facility but I thought I would ask. That's too bad. Tours would make a lot of railfans happy and they would create another source of revenue for the LIRR. Everyone wins !

Another Question... Every morning I see the Arch Street Shop ( I think that's what it's called) over by Hunterspoint. What's the deal with that place? Does it compliment the Hillside shop or does it play a completely different role in the repair and maintenance of the LIRR trains? I never see any activity over there when my train passes.

Across from the Hunterspoint platform (across several tracks) is another platform that I've never seen used. The actual platform looks like it's in really good shape. Does that have something to do with the Arch Street Shop? Is that ever used for commuters ?

One final question...

I was curious to find out that if an M1/M3 train breaks down somewhere (say in between stations) is it possible for an DE/DM to push or pull the train to the next station. I realize that there is probably a lot involved here but I ws curious to find out if that is even possible.

Thanks for your patience,
Chris

Avidprime wrote: Another Question... Every morning I see the Arch Street Shop ( I think that's what it's called) over by Hunterspoint. What's the deal with that place? Does it compliment the Hillside shop or does it play a completely different role in the repair and maintenance of the LIRR trains? I never see any activity over there when my train passes.

Across from the Hunterspoint platform (across several tracks) is another platform that I've never seen used. The actual platform looks like it's in really good shape. Does that have something to do with the Arch Street Shop? Is that ever used for commuters ?

I was curious to find out that if an M1/M3 train breaks down somewhere (say in between stations) is it possible for an DE/DM to push or pull the train to the next station. I realize that there is probably a lot involved here but I ws curious to find out if that is even possible.

-Arch Street is currently being used for the retrofitting of the older M7's.

-It's a brand new platform, I watched them consturcting it over the past few years. It is not used for commuters as of yet and does not appear to be in use at all for that matter. It seems like it will be used like Hillside - as an employee stop only.

-I am not sure about this last question, but I think I can take a stab at it. I would say no because they have incompatible couplers, and connecting them would require a compromise coupler. I believe that the only available set is currently installed on the Harold Protect (102/104), or possibly an MP15 if the Protect is OOS for some reason.

That's my 2 cents, if anyone knows better, I for one would be interested to hear.

Thanks Lirr168, You cleared up the whole Arch Street shop thing for me.

Let me ask.... If a train gets taken out of service for equipment problems at Jamaica (this has happened to me a few times), where do they take it? Does it always go to Hillside?

If a DM train leaves Jamaica and is heading to Montauk does it need to switch modes (Electric to Diesel) somewhere near Babylon? If it does need to switch, can it switch modes while it's moving or does it need to come to a complete stop? OR do they just run Diesel from Jamaica all the way out East?

I've only been through Babylon once but is there a facility there to actually do maintenance on trains?

Thanks again
Chris

Avidprime wrote: Let me ask.... If a train gets taken out of service for equipment problems at Jamaica (this has happened to me a few times), where do they take it? Does it always go to Hillside?

A lot of times, trains are taken OOS at Jamaica for problems with the doorlight. This does not require a trip to Hillside, but rather a thorough inspection by the crew to isolate the problem, and it can then be easily fixed. This would significantly delay other trains behind the affected one, especially during rush hour, which is why they go OOS.